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Post by zoesam on Feb 6, 2016 18:48:41 GMT
Zoe, yes, the shipping charge is showing as $8.40.
Thank YOU for bringing this to our attention! I never check the calculated price b/c I haven't had a problem with the calculator ever, so I wouldn't even know this if it wasn't for you.
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 7, 2016 0:21:29 GMT
Do any of you have the feature turned on that passes the postage savings on to the buyer? If not, the rate that is showing might be parcel post (or whatever the PO calls it now), for 14+ oz items. The USPS site stops at 13 oz for FC and kicks to PP for over 13 OZ.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 7, 2016 4:02:57 GMT
Nope. I'm quite confident this is happening to anyone who uses FC shipping & is using the new weights. I doubt it's just Emerald, Kloset & me. Probably most sellers haven't noticed, cuz why would you ever look at your listings to see what the postage showing is.
Whatever it's showing, it's wrong & I don't understand why Ebay can't implement postal changes correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 15:18:01 GMT
Sorry if I am repeating what was said above, but I was getting confused reading the comments. I too am having an issue and this is what I see now.
I had a sweater listed with choice of Priority or First Class shipping. When I went to print the shipping label it said the buyer chose First Class, but paid $7.20 which was the Priority cost. I went back into my listing to see what the calculator was showing and it showed a cost of $7.20 for Priority or First Class - both the same price. My cost to print a First Class label (which is what the buyer chose) would be $3.60. So since the buyer already paid the $7.20, I printed a Priority Fixed Rate envelope for $5.90.
I have 3 more with the exact same problem.
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Post by Pantlandia on Feb 7, 2016 17:00:12 GMT
Here is what I am seeing on the problem. Buyers have always paid retail counter rates (unless you pass along the discount to them) while we've gotten a discount through eBay.
There are no retail rates for first class 13.01 to 15.99 ounces, so it has to default to Priority. The amount showing $6.45 is the 1 lb priority rate to the same zone.
Now, it is easy to blame eBay for this, but they are only taking the rates from the USPS, so how is eBay supposed to know what to charge when the USPS doesn't actually have pricing for those weights?
If you go to USPS.com and enter a package weight of 15 oz, you only get prices for Priority. I'm sure eBay's shipping calculator links up to that somehow and that's what it's bringing forward to show the customers.
Work around? Nothing easy. You'd have to pass along the discounts to the customer and then put in a fair handling fee.
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Post by unknown on Feb 7, 2016 17:12:18 GMT
Except ebay was aware of the pricing changes MONTHS ago. USPS just didn't drop it on 'em the day before. stamps.com had no problem setting up the correct shipping rates.
Nobody at ebay gives a rats patootie
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Post by Pantlandia on Feb 7, 2016 17:18:24 GMT
Except ebay was aware of the pricing changes MONTHS ago. USPS just didn't drop it on 'em the day before. stamps.com had no problem setting up the correct shipping rates. Nobody at ebay gives a rats patootie Perhaps we're talking about two different issues? The issue that I'm seeing is that eBay is charging our customers $6.45 for first class over 13 oz. Not that eBay is charging the sellers incorrectly for that postage. Stamps.com has nothing to do with what eBay is charging customers for items over 13oz first class. They are only responsible for charging sellers for postage. eBay isn't failing there that I've read either...
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Post by unknown on Feb 7, 2016 17:24:41 GMT
You're right about that. I'll just slink back to bed and pull the covers over my head today. But they STILL should have programmed in the correct ounces/rates for first class, just like they should have programmed in RRA/RRB boxes in the YEARS that they've been around.
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Post by Pantlandia on Feb 7, 2016 17:34:41 GMT
You're right about that. I'll just slink back to bed and pull the covers over my head today. But they STILL should have programmed in the correct ounces/rates for first class, just like they should have programmed in RRA/RRB boxes in the YEARS that they've been around. I don't disagree with their lack of programming skills, but in this case, they don't have prices to refer to from the USPS for those weights. All other weights, they do, but the USPS does not have Retail Counter rates for 13.01 to 15.99 ounces and those prices are what eBay pulls to charge our customers. Our customers pay the Retail Counter rate while we get a discount through eBay at commercial rates. If you went into the post office with a 15oz package being mailed to the same zone, they would charge you $6.45, which is the 1lb priority rate. They don't have 13.01 to 15.99 rates inside the post office. eBay cannot arbitrarily make up Retail Counter rate prices for those weights. They have to pull that info from the post office and since the post office is saying it's $6.45, then that's what eBay has to pass along. For example, on a 9 ounce package eBay shows our buyers that it's $3.74 (which is the Retail Counter rate). We pay $3.30, which is our discount. Since we DO get a discount for 13.01 to 15.99 ounces, it passes that discount to us.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 7, 2016 18:41:52 GMT
So Jeremy, if I am understanding you correctly, you don't feel this is an error?
You are correct about what the problem is. I am thinking of writing Ina, if Emerald doesn't want to, as this was her 'find', but I know she has her hands full right now. But, I am still trying to figure out if it's an error or just the way it is?
I get what you're saying & you explained it really well, but Ebay KNOWS what they're charging for those weights, b/c they are charging US a particular amount. Why wouldn't they put those numbers in for the 14-16oz? The way it is, is a huge disservice to their buyers & sellers.
I think the best workaround for me, is Kloset's solution of making them all 13oz & eating the (pennies) difference. With my handling charge, changing back to PFRE does not make a lot of sense ($8.40 vs. $7.95). If I change it to 13oz, then it comes to $5.59 IIRC with my handling, which is far more reasonable & a lot closer to accurate.
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Post by thekloset on Feb 7, 2016 19:06:20 GMT
but ebay had to have some kind of pro-rated scale to know how to discount so you'd think they they could have planned accordingly.
UNLESS you pass the discount on to your customers, anything higher than 13 oz is detrimental, not beneficial, based on how its currently set up.
**a PRFE with no handling is $5.90 $6.80 and you get free supplies. (actual postage cost: $5.90--discount=.90)
**a 15 oz FC package is $6.45 and you are buying your own envelopes. (actual postage cost: $3.60--discount=$2.85) **a 13 oz FC shows $5.09 to the customer. (actual postage cost: $3.50--discount=$1.04)
do what you want, but at this time there is zero benefit to charging your customer for 15 oz fc shipping unless you pass on discounts.
if you don't, stay with PFRE for over 13, or set your weight to 13 oz and suck up the change between 13-15 oz.
**EDITED for posterity and clarity. wrong amount on PFRE-I had the actual cost, not what was showing to the customer (still no real benefit-FC looks crazy high)
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Post by jandsknight on Feb 7, 2016 19:08:57 GMT
They don't want to change it because they're making more money on their FVF on shipping.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 19:27:49 GMT
Another interesting thing to note, according to a few posters on the eBay boards, is that not everyone at the PO level is aware that eBay was granted FC Pkg shipping status for 13.01-15.999 oz and had packages delivered with postage due! So, for those who customarily cut off the top eBay portions of their labels, I could see where that could cause problems, too. What a headache!
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 7, 2016 19:30:34 GMT
I get what you're saying & you explained it really well, but Ebay KNOWS what they're charging for those weights, b/c they are charging US a particular amount. Why wouldn't they put those numbers in for the 14-16oz? The way it is, is a huge disservice to their buyers & sellers.
Ebay only pulls the rates from the USPS. Many other independent websites do the same thing. Same for retailer sites that don't have a flat price. It's easier than programming a whole separate shipping program.
If most of the listed items will either fit in a padded PM mailer or go FC, just go to flat rate shipping. Problem solved.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 7, 2016 19:49:54 GMT
Bets, I've been concerned about that. I have read that some postal employees aren't aware of it.
Val, my understanding is that the software comes from Pitney Bowes. I understand that it's easier to not make any changes, but it creates a huge problem that screws their buyers. From a programming standpoint, I would be shocked if they didn't already have an interface module between Pitney Bowes & their system. I don't think they could have survived without one for the last 4 yrs or so of postal rate changes & their special discounts for TRS, etc. I just don't think they've made any of the appropriate programming changes to it.
With all due respect Val, I have do desire to use Flat Rate shipping. The whole point of having calculated shipping is that each customer pays what it is correct for them. I have been using calculated shipping, for many years with Ebay & am very happy with it. It's also the only way in some categories (media) to charge the correct amount. I shouldn't have to change my method of shipping b/c of their programming error.
PFRE are not a solution for those of us with handling charges. It's almost the same price with the PFRE increase. For me, the difference is only .45 between PFRE & the incorrect FC amts. Same for other sellers I've been talking to.
The solution is for Ebay to fix their error, even though it requires some programming on their part. The interim solution for sellers, is what Kloset suggested, to go to 13 oz FC. It's the only one that makes sense for sellers with handling charges.
Ebay can't seriously be thinking they are going to hold on to the $3 overage, they are charging buyers. They love buyers, remember? I don't think this was a purposeful decision on their part, I think no one at Ebay thought about it. Which seems to be par for the course, with Ebay & postal changes. THey are always behind the power curve. It takes them years to implement what other sites have done.
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 7, 2016 20:10:01 GMT
Ebay can't seriously be thinking they are going to hold on to the $3 overage, they are charging buyers.
Ebay isn't holding on to it. The seller is getting it. It's in the payment. So technically, if anyone needs to refund for the overcharge, it would be the seller.
I don't think they could have survived without one for the last 4 yrs or so of postal rate changes & their special discounts for TRS, etc. I just don't think they've made any of the appropriate programming changes to it.
All the rates before were available from USPS. That's why eBay gave sellers the option of showing or not showing the discount rate to buyers. Since the over 13 oz FC rates are not available at all on USPS.com, my guess is it's negotiated rate for certain large customers. The commerical base plus rate WAS posted on USPS, so eBay could tap into that rate too. The FC change isn't mentioned anywhere on USPS, therefore, nothing to tap in to.
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Post by jandsknight on Feb 7, 2016 20:20:18 GMT
There's no difference due to distance on First Class rates, next door or Hawaii cost the same for the same weight. So flat rate for First Class works for me.
I am one who cuts off the ebay reference on labels. I'll try to remember not to do so on First Class over 13 oz. Thank you, BetsRoff.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 7, 2016 21:00:02 GMT
Ebay can't seriously be thinking they are going to hold on to the $3 overage, they are charging buyers.Ebay isn't holding on to it. The seller is getting it. It's in the payment. So technically, if anyone needs to refund for the overcharge, it would be the seller. I don't think they could have survived without one for the last 4 yrs or so of postal rate changes & their special discounts for TRS, etc. I just don't think they've made any of the appropriate programming changes to it. All the rates before were available from USPS. That's why eBay gave sellers the option of showing or not showing the discount rate to buyers. Since the over 13 oz FC rates are not available at all on USPS.com, my guess is it's negotiated rate for certain large customers. The commerical base plus rate WAS posted on USPS, so eBay could tap into that rate too. The FC change isn't mentioned anywhere on USPS, therefore, nothing to tap in to.
That's true that about the sellers actually getting it, good point. Problem is, how are sellers supposed to know? I never would have known if Emerald hadn't pointed it out. I just hit click, click, click & my package is on it's way. Unless a buyer asked me about it, I never would have noticed. A buyer is more likely to just pass your listing over, than ask.
I still think with all the prior discounts, that they have an interface. It would be pretty much unheard of, not to. IDK for sure though, as I don't work there. I s'pose if all the prior discounts were commercial plus, then Pitney Bowes may have had all the info & they never had to write an interface, but it's pretty SOP, anytime you're using 3rd party software to have an in-house interface.
Either way, I shouldn't have to change my entire way of doing business, b/c they aren't up to date in their programming. Jans, don't you still have to offer an expedited shipping method for TRS? That's what was required, maybe it's not anymore, I can't keep up with all the changes, but that's why I went to offering 2 shipping options & you can't offer 1 calculated & 1 flat rate, their system doesn't allow for it. Another issue entirely & something that should be in their system. But your shipping method choice is global. Therefore, if you want to remain TRS, you either have to be all flat rate or all calculated, assuming that requirement is still in place for TRS. I chose calculate b/c it was the only way to fairly do PM IMO. If that's no longer required for TRS, I could go flat rate, but again, then I'd have to change my entire business for their programming error. I'm not willing to do that.
I'm sure this will get fixed, it's just a matter of how long it takes. I suspect it will be fixed in a matter of weeks. I'm not going to make huge, time sucking changes & have it be fixed 2 weeks from now.
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 7, 2016 21:18:23 GMT
I don't know about J, but I have flat rate for domestic and calculated for international. IF you choose flat rate, you can pick generic "expedited" or you can pick one of the specific expedited options. The only difference is you need to enter a price in flat rate. Expedited option on calculated or flat will qualify for TRS+ discount.
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Post by jandsknight on Feb 7, 2016 21:26:18 GMT
I just read through the requirements for TRS & saw nothing about needing to offer expedited shipping not even for TRS plus. I remember speculations that a listing would be higher in search if it had expedited shipping, like over night, not Priority.
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 7, 2016 21:35:20 GMT
I wonder if we're confusing expedited shipping with one day handling? I'm not TRS+ so I honestly don't know which one is required for the + rating.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 7, 2016 22:08:50 GMT
I don't know about J, but I have flat rate for domestic and calculated for international. IF you choose flat rate, you can pick generic "expedited" or you can pick one of the specific expedited options. The only difference is you need to enter a price in flat rate. Expedited option on calculated or flat will qualify for TRS+ discount. Yes, but they both need to be the same, for domestic. You cannot choose flat for 1 option & expedited for another. The system doesn't let you. I believe that you CAN for international, like you said, but I only ship domestic (& I believe they must be the same for Int'l also, just thinking about the layout of the screen).
Yes, expedited on calculated or flat is ok for TRS, but you have to choose one or the other, you can't mix it up. That's been a limitation of EBay's system, since they implemented it. I have for years been calculated on both, that way, theoretically, it doesn't matter when the postal rates change. That's one of the big benefits of being calculated. Also, it helps for those categories (mainly media) where you pretty much have to use calculated if you want a fair price. I do not need to justify why I use calculated shipping. I'm not trying to convince anyone that calculated is better. Huge numbers of sellers use it & there are many good reasons for doing so. If you want to use flat rate, that's cool too, I'm sure there are advantages to doing it that way as well. I'm certainly not going to tell you to change your entire way of doing business, no one should be telling those of us with this problem that. The point is not all these nuances. The answer is not that any seller should change their entire way of doing business. Especially when this affects millions of sellers. The point IS that this is a problem for anyone using calculated shipping who has substantial handling charges. That is a HUGE chunk of Ebay sellers. The answer is not for this massive number of sellers to change their business methods drastically. The answer is for Ebay to change the error. Especially when it's an error that most sellers don't even know exists.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 7, 2016 22:12:47 GMT
I wonder if we're confusing expedited shipping with one day handling? I'm not TRS+ so I honestly don't know which one is required for the + rating. No, I'm not confusing them. 2 different things & the requirements were years apart.
The expedited shipping requirement was about 4 years ago, the 1 day handling much more recent, only about 1 1/2 yrs apart.
I believe the expedited shipping requirement was PRIOR to their being a TRS & TRS+, so that's why I said I'm not sure if it's still in effect. They changed a lot of things when they made TRS & TRS+.
I'm not TRS+ either b/c I don't do returns, but I am pretty sure that 1 day handling is still a requirement for that.
But it's really immaterial to this problem, as sellers changing their entire way of doing business is not the solution to this problem IMO.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 7, 2016 22:15:58 GMT
I just read through the requirements for TRS & saw nothing about needing to offer expedited shipping not even for TRS plus. I remember speculations that a listing would be higher in search if it had expedited shipping, like over night, not Priority. It did used to be a requirement, but see my reply to Val, it was many years ago & it wasn't speculation about Cassini, it was a real requirement, which is why I went in & changed all my listings to offer both FC & PM. I used to only offer the one that made sense weight wise. It was 4-5 yrs ago, about the same time that they changed all the shipping terminology. I believe that it's no longer a requirement. A lot of things changed when they made TRS & TRS+ & it's hard to keep straight what's what anymore. Plus I don't think they publicized some of the things that changed.
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Post by jandsknight on Feb 7, 2016 22:33:44 GMT
I have always used calculated because it has always been the most reliable and easiest. I'm still using calculated for everything except First Class 10 oz and over. I'm a small seller so it wasn't too much trouble to change those few. I hope they fix the problem, but wouldn't bet money on it happening.
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Post by Emerald_Door on Feb 8, 2016 21:37:35 GMT
Zoe, please feel free to contact Ina if you want to.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 9, 2016 4:52:03 GMT
Zoe, please feel free to contact Ina if you want to.
Ok, will do. I'm going to solicit Josh's input first, in case he knows anything on this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 20:00:12 GMT
Zoe, please feel free to contact Ina if you want to.
Ok, will do. I'm going to solicit Josh's input first, in case he knows anything on this.
replied in depth on the other thread. Go ahead and contact her.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 21:34:39 GMT
Offering expedited shipping has never been a requirement for TRS I've been TRS for years and have offered just FC on light packages for years. Maybe an old requirement for TRS+ I don't know but I do know it's never been a requirement for TRS since TRS started.
I do calculated with a handling fee, have no urge to go to flat rate. Flat rate is a pain for me, every time shipping rates change you have to change all your prices. When shipping prices changes for me now, I don't do anything, my shipping auto updates, no revising required on my part. I know everyone has their preference and calculated is mine. I have done FR previously so I have my own experience with it to go on, including revising for postal increases in the past. For me calculated works better. I say do which ever you like. I didn't see anyone trying to convince anyone else to change their shipping method just do your thing and don't worry about it.
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Post by zoesam on Feb 11, 2016 7:06:47 GMT
Head:desk
There absolutely was a requirement to offer an expedited shipping option. I don't recall if it was for TRS or TRS+, as it was many, many years ago. I think it was TRS, b/c I don't think I ever was TRS+, but it's hard to remember with all the iterations of the program. There was a ton of talk about it, back on most likely the Ebay boards, it was so long ago, b/c EBay's wording was confusing (what's new) & sellers were unclear if expedited meant an overnight option or simply PM. Sellers were quite up in arms, b/c many of us had to change all our listings, including myself. That part is irrelevant at this point, unless there is still a requirement, it sounds like no, based on what you're saying. I never changed them back, so I don't know. I still remember the pain of having to change them all to offer 2 methods.
Additionally, several people HAVE said that the fix to the problem is to go Flat Rate, Val said it up above, as did someone else. I think Val's quote was "use flat rate shipping, problem solved" LOL, so that's how I got the idea that people are saying that's the solution. I didn't imagine it. Of course I will do what I think is best, but that does not resolve EBay's part of the problem. I have already decided what I feel is the best workaround, as I've stated several times. Others have other workarounds, which is fine. They are all options. The point is that none of the workarounds resolve EBay's problem in this. We can't do that, we are simply sellers.
As such, I have written Ina & I've also sent her the link to this discussion, plus my contact info. Hopefully she can get some info out of Ebay as to whether they intend it to remain this way &/or if they even know it's a problem? I have not read about it anywhere else except for here, so I gotta wonder if Ebay even knows about it? It's not something the average seller is going to notice, b/c who checks the shipping amounts on their listings? Well, lucky for us, Emerald does!
The potential number of sellers this affects is astounding - anyone who uses calculated shipping & ships a 14-16oz FC package. I'm betting that the average seller doesn't KNOW they can ship FC 14-16oz & that's why it hasn't come up much yet. Those of us on boards tend to be more in the know about things like rate changes, than the typical casual seller.
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