Think I'll Get in Trouble if I List This?

[Pantlandia]

It's a postcard from 1909 (the 1923 date show was written on by the previous collector. It has a postmark of 1909), but it has a very interesting symbol on it. It's history dates back almost 5000 years ago and it has a religious meaning and has been used to wish others good luck. Unfortunately, Hitler pretty much ruined the symbol and it's significance. 

I'd like to list this card, but I'm not sure if it would be taken down or not.

[sunsetpainter]

(Sorry I don't remember how to put a pic of the info in here)

Found this under the "Offensive Material Policy":



Nazi and Nazi-related
We recognize the historical significance of World War II and that there are many militaria collectors around the world. We allow some related historical items, but ban others, particularly those that amount to Nazi propaganda, or that are disrespectful to victims.

Allowed:

Stamps, letters, and envelopes displaying Nazi postmarks (must comply with the currency and stamp policy)

Currency issued by the Nazi German government, including military scripts

Historically accurate WWII military model kits that have Nazi symbols



Not allowed:

Items that are not permitted include, but are not limited to:

Historical Holocaust-related items, including reproductions such as:

Uniforms and personal belongings of concentration camp prisoners

Jewish identification (armbands, Star of David)

Holocaust photos that depict dead bodies, executions, or other violent or degrading scenes

Nazi-issued documents (passports, travel papers)

Historical Nazi-related items, including reproductions such as:

Uniforms, uniform components, weapons, or other items that bear Nazi symbols, whether visible or covered

Listings in which images are edited or cropped to try and hide Nazi symbols

Denazified items (items that originally had Nazi symbols that have been removed)

1936 Olympic medals

Items that were owned by, affiliated with, or books written by Nazi leaders such as:

Joseph Goebbels

Hermann Goering

Rudolf Hess

Reinhard Heydrich

Heinrich Himmler

Adolf Hitler

Media identified as Nazi propaganda or that otherwise promote hatred or racial supremacy including historic and current items

[Pantlandia]

See, the dumb thing is that it's not Nazi related at all. The symbol existed thousands of years before the Nazi adopted it and this postcard was created 11 years before the Nazi party was formed. It shouldn't even fall under that rule. Not in the slightest, but if it gets pulled, that will be the reason it does. Why would I have to hope that it doesn't get pulled because a rep doesn't know 1- that even if it was Nazi related, it's allowed and 2- the history behind the symbol.

I've got a ton of off-the-wall postcards that I'm going to list. I'm going to list this one and hope that stupidity doesn't rear it's ugly head.

[Deleted]

Since it predates World War II and that the symbol it not used in conjunction with a Nazi related item of insignia PLUS that it is a postcard (allowed even if it were Nazi), I think you are safe. But, I would still make sure to detail that it is not a Nazi-related item, nor is it related to World War II in any manner plus that it is in line with the eBay policy and OK to list. Hopefully, if there were to look to take it down they would see that or at least see it on the appeal if they removed it.

Interesting item, I had no idea that symbol was not unique to the Nazi party and automatically associated it with ugly. Thank you for posting and good luck with it, I think you have a good item there.

[Deleted]

The rules certainly point to it being OK even if it were misinterpreted. But I'm with you; If it were to get as far as having to deal with CS, I have a certain distrust of those who make the judgement (?) calls. Or would that be lack of judgement call?

People on every sellers' forum I've ever belonged to have complained that reporting does not get items pulled, so I don't think misguided complaints/reporting would really hurt you. It seems to me that the only things that get pulled are VeRO related. Or the rare listing that gets noticed because it goes viral. But having said all that...if you did open that Etsy store, I might give it a run there first. It's just easier not to have to speculate about problems at all.

[chapeaunoir]

I would list it - it doesn't go against policy, and IMHO collectors of ephemera such as this are pretty knowledgeable. Also, if you include you explanation the first post, that's verifiably true.  If all items with that symbol were banned, they'd be banning large amounts of various crafted goods going back thousands of years because it has been used since classical times.

Also, note - the Nazis had the swastika tilted, yours is in the traditional squared position.

[sunsetpainter]

Jun 3, 2015 15:39:49 GMT chapeaunoir said:

Also, note - the Nazis had the swastika tilted, yours is in the traditional squared position.

I didn't know that.  That's good to know.

[Deleted]

I just searched swastika postcard and found 110 matches, most very similar to yours, so you should be fine.

[val2525]

I'd list it, and include the history (which I found quite interesting).

[chapeaunoir]

What the Nazis did is what fascists of all stripes have done almost since the beginning of time: Co-opt a popular symbol and pervert it to their own cause. It's a political gambit with little regard (or knowledge) of the meaning and use of the original symbol. This one was particularly awful, though, since it had such deep roots in so many cultures and was so perverted.

[Pantlandia]

Thank you all for your input. I'll be listing this with a bunch of stuff over the next few days.