kritter
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When we lose sight of how we treat animals, we tend to lose sight of our humanity
Posts: 19,901 
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Post by kritter on Feb 20, 2019 1:36:32 GMT
Heads are rollin'....Bob Kuphens and Scott Cutler are gone.
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Post by Pantlandia on Feb 20, 2019 2:59:59 GMT
Bob Kupbens was an idiot, but then again, most of them are.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 20, 2019 6:23:11 GMT
Kupbens? The "visionary and thought-leader" or whatever he calls himself on his Linked-In? I'm not sure these constant reshufflings are going to help plot a future course and coherent vision, which is where eBay seems to be struggling.
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Post by unknown on Feb 20, 2019 11:13:50 GMT
You sure they just don't want to spend more time with their families?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 19:31:55 GMT
just another rearrangement of deck chairs
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Post by Desire on Feb 20, 2019 21:13:29 GMT
Sadly, the whole place is a joke. They need to clean house.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 21, 2019 0:18:11 GMT
I worked for a large company that was constantly reshuffling to fix problems - then they fired their CEO. Like magic, numerous problems were cleared up (mostly in operations and procedures).
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Post by mupcycledcouture on Feb 22, 2019 23:46:50 GMT
Once an investor said bad things, they HAVE to do something to make t look like they are fixing the problem. Sadly, until they get Wenig out and NOT put in a Bain person, nothing will change.
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 23, 2019 1:35:21 GMT
mupcycledcouture, did you read the full letter and recommendations from the investor group? Interesting reading, a lot of it is stuff sellers have been saying for years. They cut to the chase on that report.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 23, 2019 6:03:16 GMT
I read it and felt it was a very keen-eyed appraisal. I had faith in Wenig at the beginning but sadly he simply doesn't seem to have the experience or vision to lead eBay forward. He just keeps going over the same old retreads - when they had that embarrassing campaign to counter the Amazon Prime Day I knew that there needed to be a real change. Sure, other sites did, too, and I thought the entire thing was completely lame on all their parts, but because I sell on eBay I just cringed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 20:35:37 GMT
I don't think "the problem" is Wenig, or Kupbens, or anyone who's been along for the Ebay ride. The problem is - the complexity of Ebay. It's just not a venue that will have major growth based on it's small seller roots.
I'm sure all of Ebay corporate, past and present, are looking at the numbers/facts/figures that not everyone is privy to. How do you grow something where there isn't a major demand for that something? I'm NOT slamming Ebay as a company. They're a great place for individual sellers. They're a great place to find that matching drape, collector item, or a certain piece of clothing. But they don't have a lot to offer, at this point, the main market on a large scale. Paypal was their cash cow, and isn't Stub Hub their main growth at this point?
Ebay owes their investors growth regardless of how sellers feel about decisions made. So 1000 leave screaming and slamming the door. There's 1000 more to replace them. Problem is - there are now a lot of other sites that hacked up Ebay and there is no going back.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 23, 2019 22:03:42 GMT
@dantes I think the problem IS with Wenig et al. because they won't see that basic fact you mentioned, and which I agree with - eBay will never compete with Amazon but they don't have to - they can be an incredible eBay. IMHO, the C-suite runs on ego - they want to be bigger than everyone, more disruptive than anyone...but they don't have the base to do that. To do that, you need physical infrastructure and logistics, warehousing not just for the Chinese, fulfilment, etc. and they don't have that. You can't push C2C commerce where they want eBay to go.
So now over the years they've dug themselves into a hole with their shareholders, and it's a daily scramble to find something, anything, that satisfies them, meanwhile growth is at 2%. The divested themselves of the "big commerce" divisions which were running them into the ground - that was a smart move. It's just going to be a slog until they understand that the beauty of eBay is as a premier site for auctions (and I mean getting Southby's and Christie's on board, fine art auction, etc.) and the secondary market, which is HUGE, along with the primary market.
It would be a huge jolt, though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 1:32:34 GMT
I'm not sure the auction model is sustainable enough for the growth Ebay needs - especially for their investors. Auctions are only good for what is not readily available and cleaning out - pennies on the dollar stuff. What can Ebay offer any large auction house? It's a huge step down for the ones you mentioned to even be associated with Ebay.
That's their whole problem.
They absolutely have to compete with Amazon because Amazon is gobbling up a huge share of the online growth. And how much of Ebay's growth is due to Stub Hub? No wonder they're desperate to make their online payment system work.
They're going to have to do something radically different, or maybe grow on the 'green' movement. Brand their own products with environmentally responsible packing. Start working with companies to get subscription products going - work the repeat buyer angle. Partner with companies who NEED Ebay. Maybe some of the contestants on designer shows. Nike and all the big names don't need Ebay. Figure out what the Millennials want. Start appealing to a wider base.
On my personal porch this week were 8 packages from Amazon consisting of auto parts, subscription for pets, subscription for vitamins,dog glow chuck it balls - all from Amazon. And then there was a Barkbox - another subscription.
ETA: I think every CEO is seeing the quagmire of Ebay, and all of them are getting blamed for not producing.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 24, 2019 10:14:27 GMT
To do any of that, they need a change in leadership because the current leadership can't see beyond the next quarter and their own egos.
Actually, Southby's and Christie's were both associated with eBay - it's eBay that needs to reclaim its former reputation in order to win the big houses back. There used to be a prominent high-end auction component to eBay -I recall it very clearly, but then Doho came along. The secondary market is huge, and Amazon really isn't touching that, and it's not all house cleaning and nickel and dime stuff. The secondary market is also a big appeal to the Millennial market, and nostalgia is another component.
Most of those other things are just, again, more Amazon initiatives. eBay isn't going to beat Amazon by imitating it - they need to think out of the Amazon box.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 24, 2019 10:23:30 GMT
It could be that there isn't any real road forward for eBay at this point - I really want them to improve and succeed, but they're not going to beat Amazon by imitating it. Not going to happen. They have to take a more innovative path.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 14:39:13 GMT
You're correct - they did partner with the large auction venues. But it didn't last.
Ebay did have some high end auctions ( still do to a point ) but they were really the only game in town back then. And with that came the scammers. Ebay started blocking ID's on auctions when it reached a certain amount so you couldn't see who was bidding. Sellers tried to fight it saying it would lead to shilling. Then they blocked all the ID's and sellers still didn't get the big picture. Scammers were making a lot of money off of fake second chance offers. It was killing Ebay's reputation. They became the scammy site.
We sold a lot of automotive parts, motors, and cars back then. I was having to put disclosures in my auction in huge red that I will NOT send second chance offers. The scammers even sent me one on my own vehicle. It was really well done.
Why is competing with Amazon so bad? Amazon has a lot of customers. They're giving people what they want. How do you keep current investors happy, or get new investors if there is no meaningful growth?
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 24, 2019 18:10:48 GMT
Direct competition with Amazon is a losing game for eBay as they don't have the infrastructure (warehousing, logistics, etc.) - they're trying to be Amazon on the backs of millions of small sellers and some big ones. It's one thing adopting innovations that Amazon has used, but the models are very different. eBay needs to prevent an alternative, not just a copy cat. And the thing is, that ship has sailed. To be any real competition to Amazon, as they want to be, they needed to have started in about 2006.
I remember that auction debacle and it was handled badly, I think because there weren't the tools then. I think that chance is probably also gone, though.
eBay needs to be eBay, not Amazon Lite - Wenig SAYS that they don't want to be another Amazon, but a lot of their initiatives belie that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 22:56:16 GMT
But Ebay being Ebay isn't creating much growth. Yes - there are a lot of successful pro sellers and hobby sellers. And there are people who have fun just throwing stuff on there for lunch money. lol That doesn't translate into investor satisfaction. They're getting flak again.
I don't think there's a bigger market for what Ebay currently is. Again - how much of their growth is due to Stub Hub? And how much is coming from higher fees? If they went up....
Amazon is capturing the market because they offer products and experiences that buyers want. Houzz and Wayfair offer what buyers want. For me - I only shop Ebay if I know specifically what I want. I will not wade through stuff. I just can't.
This comes to mind - Quite a while ago I was reading about the mentality of the average shopper. This applies more to B&M's, but it stated how shoppers will avoid an aisle where it feels cluttered. Obviously we're not talking about thrift shoppers. But if there is a ladder sitting in the middle of an aisle, like the ones at Home Depot or Lowes, then it can keep a buyer from browsing that aisle. Same with those stacked displays going down aisles. Too much clutter and shoppers bypass it altogether. Less impulse purchases.
And then there was a doc on Costco shoppers that was really good. Costco carries a lot less product than most stores, but they're very successful. Costco is super customer service friendly, they make it easy to shop and buy and return. I don't have to keep one receipt because everything is on my card. Right there- customer loyalty.
Both of these examples are the opposite of Ebay. Ebay's quality control is non existent. Who wants to wade through hundreds of items to find something you like?
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 25, 2019 1:27:15 GMT
All of those places/sites have logistics, though (Houzz is a mixture, I realize, but they do shipping). eBay doesn't. Unless eBay wants to acquire a logistical chain (warehousing, fulfillment etc.) once again they're trying to imitate these other sites on the backs of millions of small to mid-size sellers. eBay sells nothing itself.
It's apples and oranges, which is why I don't see what eBay is doing as a way forward. They need to either acquire logistics, or back it off and develop a smaller alternative - which will not finance a enormous salary and personal jet for Wenig, I understand. What they're doing now is not growing the site. And does the world really need another Amazon/Best Buy/Costco, etc.? They're already starting to cannibalize each other because the pie is only so big.
eBay simply is going to have to forge its own path unless it wants to make that leap - though they're not going anywhere, either. If they can be content with slow growth then let it be so - work with what they have.
I've heard of that study before and it was interesting to note, but I have a tough time understanding the mentality of someone who can't be bothered to step around a simple step-ladder.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 25, 2019 1:31:02 GMT
PS: I understand what you're saying about the clutter on eBay, though - it can be pretty bad, which is why I understand the catalog initiative for at least some of those items. eBay would have to change completely to eliminate that, and I really don't think they're trying to get rid of their small sellers - I think they ARE trying to grow big on the cheap, though.
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 25, 2019 22:36:41 GMT
Just for the record...as of 9/30/18:
% of items sold on eBay that are NEW 80%
% of items sold on eBay via Fixed Price format 89%
Used items are a very small part of the overall eBay picture. I suspect "small" sellers are also a small part.
The % above are from eBay corporate.
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 25, 2019 22:40:48 GMT
Amazon is capturing the market because they offer products and experiences that buyers want. Houzz and Wayfair offer what buyers want. For me - I only shop Ebay if I know specifically what I want. I will not wade through stuff. I just can't. This comes to mind - Quite a while ago I was reading about the mentality of the average shopper. This applies more to B&M's, but it stated how shoppers will avoid an aisle where it feels cluttered. Obviously we're not talking about thrift shoppers. But if there is a ladder sitting in the middle of an aisle, like the ones at Home Depot or Lowes, then it can keep a buyer from browsing that aisle. Same with those stacked displays going down aisles. Too much clutter and shoppers bypass it altogether. Less impulse purchases. And then there was a doc on Costco shoppers that was really good. Costco carries a lot less product than most stores, but they're very successful. Costco is super customer service friendly, they make it easy to shop and buy and return. I don't have to keep one receipt because everything is on my card. Right there- customer loyalty. Both of these examples are the opposite of Ebay. Ebay's quality control is non existent. Who wants to wade through hundreds of items to find something you like? This is why store categories are so important. Make it easy for your buyer to find what they want. And talk about clutter ... one reason I will not shop Amazon is the horribly cluttered listing page. |
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 25, 2019 23:47:51 GMT
Just for the record...as of 9/30/18: % of items sold on eBay that are NEW 80% % of items sold on eBay via Fixed Price format 89% Used items are a very small part of the overall eBay picture. I suspect "small" sellers are also a small part. The % above are from eBay corporate. I thought the percentage of used items was even lower. eBay has been pushing New and Fixed Price hard for years now, and the used market has fractured - eBay could have had it all, but they squandered that (new and used do not have to be mutually exclusive, but for some years eBay was starving the used market). But these stats paint an even sorrier picture for those who want eBay to compete with Amazon rather than be the best eBay - even with 80% new and fixed price, eBay is still experiencing almost non-existent (2%) growth and have fallen very behind Amazon. And when people think of eBay, they still think "Used, hard to find, anything imaginable", despite the fact that new goods are in the majority. To be fair, a lot of problems were caused by former eBay employees spamming Google search and from my reading, eBay is actively working on reversing that - Google also keeps rolling out core algo changes. Still, eBay is scrambling around trying to even understand ecommerce in the bigger picture, and then they have to back-engineer these initiatives that have grown organically with Amazon, which is a huge task and not going to get done with the 'talent' eBay seems have. Shifting the C-suiters around and having Wenig say "I'm pissed off" like a 15 year old and denying he's not trying to be Amazon Lite isn't getting them there. But yeah, they can get rid of we small sellers - we're insignificant and unimportant - until we're all gone and eBay still hasn't created this new fabulous identity because they don't have anything that everybody else doesn't also have - save that tiny little portal called "Used and Small Seller." |
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Feb 25, 2019 23:53:15 GMT
I thought the percentage of used items was even lower. eBay has been pushing New and Fixed Price hard for years now, and the used market has fractured - eBay could have had it all, but they squandered that (new and used do not have to be mutually exclusive, but for some years eBay was starving the used market). This was from an eBay corporate presentation the first of last October, but it was for ALL eBay sites combined. Not just the U.S. site. It's possible that some of the other international sites (UK, AU, CA etc) have more used items than the U.S. site does. |
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 26, 2019 0:01:42 GMT
It was only a matter of a few percentage points - eBay US was 18% if I recall. eBay US also has an enormous China presence, warehouses for the Chinese, etc.
When the last used/small sellers finally leave the site, it'll look like Etsy - a giant Wish.com, only with electronics.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Feb 26, 2019 0:13:02 GMT
I'm kind of joking up there, but the C-suite at eBay may think that we small/used sellers are a drag anchor on the site, but I still think it's lack of overall logistics - for instance, it's tough to offer something like Prime without self-fulfillment because they have to depend on tons of individual sellers, and if they have 3rd party participation, then they have to have contracts with each one of those sellers. No longer will you be able to just sign onto eBay and sell your stuff - new or used, grow a business going to Dillard's or Goodwill and flipping stuff - you'll have to be accepted to sell, your area ungated, your items cataloged, photos will have to abide by strict standards (ebay could use doing that now). If one uses FBA then one effectively rents warehouse space and guess what - if your stuff doesn't move, it goes. Fees are higher, and competition for the buy box, and with Amazon itself (who will copy cat products), is harder.
Don't know, I just sell my used shit here and I'm just spinning ideas. eBay works for me right now, but it's not my world - it's just a place where I sell but I hope for the best for the site. I'm curious about the eBay Payments - Etsy just had a payments snafu which they tried their best to sweep under the carpet - I doubt it was Adyen which caused that but Etsy's front end.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 1:40:34 GMT
I don't think Ebay or Amazon's front page is cluttered. It's when you go to search. We literally just tried searching for a part on Ebay for DH's Duramax 3500. Can't populate it by keywords, did the drill down of compatible parts and Ebay's results were f*cked. To put it mildly. Just bought the correct part on Amazon. It took my DH less than 2 minutes to search, find, verify, and then pay. Bam - confirmation email. People don't want to wade through a bunch of stuff to find something. The novelty of auctions and buying online is over. Convenience rules.
And speaking of innovating - Amazon is getting into the shipping game big time. And Ebay is looking into ( or is doing ) third party fulfillment centers.
I don't think there will ever be a "win" for Ebay Corporate. They're expected to grow a market where there are already a LOT of sites replicating what Ebay does in parts. Ex. - clothing, music, art, antiques, etc.. Ebay itself has been broken up. Whereas Amazon is saying - here, we got your everyday - all day life pretty much covered from food to car parts to clothing to laundry detergent and head ache relief. And they're very good at what they do. Bezos is brilliant at customer retention.
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