refunds, refunds, refunds...

[thekloset]

::Feel free to move if this is the wrong board::

I have officially made it to the seventh circle of hell.

I log on today to a PAYPAL dispute (which apparently was a snad, the buyer really didn't have much of an explanation--its a zero fb buyer so I have NO clue what her problem is-I replied, quoted SPP and escalated--no doubt this is an ebay defect for her opening-I don't have time to sit on the phone right now, but I might call later to try to get it closed in my favor).

then an email with a "it doesn't fit, it must be missized (no, it just doesn't fit) and i'll need to alter it to fit my daughter so "can you do anything for me"!! (since at least it was an email and not a claim I offered a courtesy refund for price only on return--hoping to avoid a formal request).

I have had more snad/return/disputes/what can you do for me problems in the last few months than I have in my entire ebay career--this is number 5 or 6 SINCE CHRISTMAS.

its ridiculous already, and while I would consider taking returns if I thought it would mitigate the damage, it wont--they will still choose SNAD to get their shipping paid, so why bother. I just don't know what else to do or how else to protect myself.

 

if this surge in problems isn't affecting your business at the moment, well, i'm happy for you, but that doesn't much help those of us who are having these problems. its NOT a situation that I can "stop worrying about it"--its affecting me drastically...seriously, i'm an anxiety ridden disaster thanks to ebay these day.

again, its really easy to repeat the party lines like "its the cost of doing business" or better yet, "the buyer is always right".

I hinted, or said outloud (don't remember) that this is probably my final year. its to the point that a even a year seems agonizing. sales fall to new lows every month-maybe if I was making nice money again i'd suck it up, but no so much these days.

i'm just out of self-protection ideas. i'm in the process of revising my listings to remove an extraneous stuff and streamline them and i'm honestly considering redoing all of them with NO real description and no measurements--in fact, i'm strongly considering it. no idea if that will help or hurt, but I cant imagine it will get any worse. I imagine that no matter what I do, "buyers opinion trumps all" anyway.

if there are any real concrete suggestions, i'm all ears.

[Deleted]

The only thing I can suggest - and I admit I'm not even doing it myself yet - is to send a message to the buyer after you ship, letting them know that if they have any problems to please reply to this message, or something along those lines.

I think a lot of buyers would simply reply instead of going through ebay, saving you the potential defect.

A couple people have said they do that, and it works for the most part. I don't know why I haven't started doing it yet, I've been planning to forever.

[val2525]

You can email the buyer via the Paypal payment email too. I had a lot using 'reply' when I did that. Very handy.

((((Kloset))))) I'm sorry you're getting all these numpties.

[Deleted]

I gotta admit now that measurements don't really mean much I'm considering not even including them when I start listing again. Yeah you'll lose some buyers that won't ask but I see tons of items selling without measurements and the sellers fb is fine. Seems like all the buyer has to do is say you measured wrong and you get a defect, ebay won't stand behind your measurements so not sure it's worth it. Measurements are hard for me, not so much taking but typing them in and then rechecking them a couple times to make sure I didn't impose any #'s (still happens though) so I could list a ton more if I didn't include them.

[thekloset]

so far....

the "what can you do for me fisher" is returning. that's completely fine---she understands she is getting purchase price only back and has done everything through regular messages and other that the "what can you do for me" part, has been human. I have NO problem handling a refund IN THE MANNER I SEE FIT---that is exactly what should be taking place, not crazy penalties for something that didn't work for someone.

the paypal case is still under review. I imagine it will take a small act of congress to wrap it up, either way. even though my experience with calling paypal has been good, I don't want to deal with it at the moment. I really just don't have it in me to argue with anyone-I cleared my head last night and would like it to stay that way for the time being.

fwiw, I DO send a packing slip with the blah, blah, contact me crap. I don't think it does squat...the big blue return button is way too prominent in ebay--there absolutely should be a forced, first choice of "contact seller" prior to any punitive action, but what do I know?!

i'm really kind of serious on the measurement thing. ita-people sell just fine without them, and they are nothing more that ammunition for bad buying behaviors. in fact, on my skinny jean thing, the CS told me that perhaps they were mistagged (no matter they were measurements/size of the exact pair of pants) and I should "contact the manufacturer" and inform them of the issue. so in that case, measurements did absolutely nada for me. I too could list way faster and much more without them.

i'm considering deleting them on active listings. I have duplicates of the listings saved, so if someone needed them I can easily pull them up, but going forward I wouldn't be able to. I guess I could experiment for a month to see just how many ASQ's I get about them--but I also don't want to make a bazillion changes all at the same time. (then I wont know what works/doesn't-it needs to be controlled). the issue with this is that traditionally, my niche DOES want them--not having them may hurt me more than help me.

i'm just sick to death of no support from ebay. I don't think I've successfully won a defect case yet.

even when i'm right.

[val2525]

i'm really kind of serious on the measurement thing. ita-people sell just fine without them, and they are nothing more that ammunition for bad buying behaviors. in fact, on my skinny jean thing, the CS told me that perhaps they were mistagged (no matter they were measurements/size of the exact pair of pants) and I should "contact the manufacturer" and inform them of the issue. so in that case, measurements did absolutely nada for me. I too could list way faster and much more without them.

Are you serious? An eBay CSR said that? Geez. Must be the same dumb ass CSR who told someone to photograph in a bunch of different lightings.

[Deleted]

I never thought I would say this, but I can't wait for Spring updates. I'm really hoping it will put an end to some of this insanity and there will be some revisions made to the defect system. I don't even care if they do it for their own selfish reasons of needing to reduce CS calls because they're laying off employees.

I am also one that gets eBay anxiety, so I empathize. I dread going back to eBay full time, but considering my PT gig now is being my sister's caretaker/companion I'm anxious to give that up and for her to be healthy and only need me as her sister again.

[thekloset]

be careful what you wish for.

I don't expect the spring update to be seller friendly-at all. I predict more minor, annoying changes that don't fix squat but make all of us work harder-busywork nonsense to make it LOOK like there are changes--they may throw a bone or two, but I wouldnt expect anything earth shattering.

there isn't really a ton of evidence or motivation for ebay to revisit the defect policy--even with the cut in CS reps. its working *to* their advantage-lowering discounts, weeding out the small guys, etc, etc. the added workload to CS is pretty irrelevant to them and their "positioning and posturing"--I imagine they will be like any other company and expect more for less out of those who hold on to their jobs. if I had to bet, those jobs lost will be domestic anyway...the oversees operations will be business as usual. its pretty unimportant to the current powers that be that they earned themselves the honor of being a "scammers paradise"....seems to be hard to put a dollar amount of reputation anyway.  as long as the bottom line is manipulated to look favorable, that's pretty much all that matters today and going forward.

I hope I'm wrong.

[atdahop]

Kloset, you have has a tough few weeks and I really feel for you. Also, spending all this time talking to various CS reps takes away from listing, etc.  This defect crap has everyone second guessing themselves.  I am a no returns seller and had a buyer want to return something for fit.  I agreed, lucky no case opened, she is sending it back and "paying to ship herself as she states".  I am wondering if she is expecting me to refund original shipping?  It's only $2 and change but I am saying to myself, is it worth getting a defect for $2 and change.  I might be able to get it removed but is it worth my time trying to get through to an intelligent CS rep. I have not received it yet

[Deleted]

The only thing I can suggest - and I admit I'm not even doing it myself yet - is to send a message to the buyer after you ship, letting them know that if they have any problems to please reply to this message, or something along those lines.

I do this and it has saved me a couple of times, but the same people who don't read the listing before they buy also don't read the email I send them. I even had one buyer respond to the email then copy everything into eBay messages because she thought I was trying to circumvent the system.

Anyway, what I do is send an email response to the email I get telling me they paid. I tell them to contact me back through the email if there are any issues with their item.

[Deleted]

My theory on measurements is the increase in the amount of items I can list would make up for any sales I may miss. Other than boardies I don't know anyone that includes all the measurements I do and it's never seemed to be an issue for them. If I could do an extra 10 or 15 listings a day, I think it would easily counter a possible drop in sales. I do them on everything and I over measure everything, including everything possible. Definitely need to stop on children's items unless it's something high dollar, not worth the little profit you make. A length on kids dresses would be plenty, stop the bust, shoulder to shoulder, waist, sleeve length etc.
Don't know if I can do it though. Getting stressed out just thinking about it. I've done it from day one so it's ingrained pretty deep LOL

[val2525]

Unfortunately, if I left out measurements, I'd get emails asking for them and probably a drop in sales (plus sizes). OTOH, most plus size buyers are decent customers so it evens out.

[sunsetpainter]

Jan 24, 2015 14:47:20 GMT thekloset said:

i'm just sick to death of no support from ebay. I don't think I've successfully won a defect case yet.

even when i'm right.

FWIW, I've never had Ebay remove a defect from my account or remove bad feedback, even when it goes against their policy!

[thekloset]

i couldn't get her to admit it doesn't fit-she is now SCREAMING at me that its FADED AND SHE DOESNT HAVE TO SEND MY PICTURES AND SHE WANTS HER MONEY BACK NOW.

I've stayed calm, I've stayed shockingly professional, and later, i fully plan to send her one last message stating there is a big difference between not wanting something and not as described and that she is accusing me of some wrongdoing without providing evidence of such (not that she has to, but it will make me feel better).

::sigh::

so ill escalate on 2/2, and i already know I've lost the case as her opinion is the only one that matters and all the proof in the world is irrelevent, but i plan to see it through.

she's like a petulant child. this is the kind of customer that ebay grooms and wants.

maybe its a mistake on my end, but oh well. now that I've fully poked the bear, i expect i'll get a big red negative out of this as well. i'm just sick of all of it.

[thekloset]

btw--does anyone know how to get my last 2 "requests" out of my unpaid category??

i thought it was all automatic once the refund was issued, but they are still sitting there, and the only option on my end is that "buyer hasn't paid" (which they did, but were refunded, so that doesn't seem right)

it is driving me mildly insane.

[thekloset]

sorry, wrong thread.

how pathetic is THAT--i cant even keep my own cases straight.

it speaks volumes.

[Deleted]

Jan 29, 2015 14:55:41 GMT thekloset said:

sorry, wrong thread.

how pathetic is THAT--i cant even keep my own cases straight.

it speaks volumes.

These things seem to come it 3's - this will pass. And, yes they easily can get jumbled all together as one big mess in my mind also.



Not directed at Kloset, but just in general on the measurements thing - I have posted this before, but I will just stress it again for anyone who might not have considered it. I like to give basic measurements on many items also, it can help with a sale. But, please make sure to include the word "approximately" even if your measurements are precise and spot-on. I have seen way too many sellers get a SNAD over the years on 1/4" or even 1", etc. and the buyer provide ebay CSR with photos taken in the buyers own way of measuring. In other words, they can be used against you.  I have found that "approximate" measurements seems to take away that argument for the most part.

[thekloset]

i'm way past the 3's.

approximate is a fine idea, and hopefully you'll get a representative with a brain, and not one that tells you its your fault for not including the definition OF approximate. some CS are more human than others, but in my now lengthy experience with them, the goal is not really to do much other than follow a pretty narrow script and only resolve issues that are blatant violations...there doesn't seem to be much power for interpretation of policies anymore, and I find it to be very one sided rather than a fair process.

I've come to the conclusion that none of it really matters these days-if a buyer wants their money back, its a pretty done deal.

[Deleted]

Jan 29, 2015 14:53:38 GMT thekloset said:

btw--does anyone know how to get my last 2 "requests" out of my unpaid category??

i thought it was all automatic once the refund was issued, but they are still sitting there, and the only option on my end is that "buyer hasn't paid" (which they did, but were refunded, so that doesn't seem right)

it is driving me mildly insane.

I'd like to know the answer to that, too. I had a cancellation, immediately refunded through eBay and the dang thing just sits there. Just too lazy and worn out to call CS to try and get an answer...

[thekloset]

bets--I just archived a "regular return" that I refunded the purchase price only for--I had no option to cancel the transaction. i'll assume I didn't get any FVF returned, which is a small price to pay for me these days--so I didn't care about that part. I DID care about it showing up unpaid on the buyer side, so after I archived I emailed her to explain and as far as we both could tell, it worked.

but like I said, it was a "regular" return. in a request/case I want my fees back so I'm hesitant to try it with them....I honestly thought it was supposed to be automatic (I didn't research to see if my fees were returned, really, I have better things to do, lol)

[Deleted]

Jan 29, 2015 19:25:04 GMT @betsroff said:

Jan 29, 2015 14:53:38 GMT thekloset said:

btw--does anyone know how to get my last 2 "requests" out of my unpaid category??

i thought it was all automatic once the refund was issued, but they are still sitting there, and the only option on my end is that "buyer hasn't paid" (which they did, but were refunded, so that doesn't seem right)

it is driving me mildly insane.

I'd like to know the answer to that, too. I had a cancellation, immediately refunded through eBay and the dang thing just sits there. Just too lazy and worn out to call CS to try and get an answer...

For returns where you refunded, but did not use the return request or refunded less than the total payment i.e. deducted shipping - save them up in archived until you are ready to cal CS for all your FVF back

For items that hang out in your return requests because of less than the original: these will hang out there until CS removes them when you call.


I like to call CS about once every 2-3 weeks and go over defect removal, cleaning up my turn area and FVF requests on refunded transactions. It takes me about 2-3 hours to get them all resolved. It cleans up the look return area, gets a little money and most importantly I usually get a few defects removed. I have found many defects that never were supposed to be on there, such as several returns for fit, a case that was decided in my favor still showing, etc. These things almost always get removed.