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Post by chapeaunoir on Sept 9, 2018 5:48:23 GMT
Coverage of the Weekly Chat: www.ecommercebytes.com/2018/09/08/more-info-for-sellers-as-ebay-kicks-off-new-managed-payments/I'm open to this, but am disturbed by the leaky and overly complicated structure. I use Etsy Payments on Etsy and have since I started selling in 2015 - it's seamless and easy, Adyen runs its back end and Etsy disburses money once a week (though you can have a disbursement sooner if desired). Basically, I have one deposit a week into my bank account. I use Etsy labels and it all comes out of that weekly disbursal amount. My concerns: On eBay, they're disbursing each transaction to you bank account separately. This is way too much money handling; some banks (many, actually) start charging a per-transaction rate if one goes over a certain amount of transactions. I would have to track each one of these transactions in my statement instead of being able to monitor them in Paypal (this is in amongst my other deposits from my other income sources. Secondly, you will still only be able to use Paypal for purchasing labels (so suddenly we have two different streams) - if eBay isn't depositing into Paypal, this means having to either keeping a separate paypal balance, or signing up with another shipping company like Stamps, Endicia, etc. Right now everything just comes out of paypal. It's one seamless transaction and come tax time, if one uses Outright, it's easy to track. This seems kind of fluid right now. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 6:13:09 GMT
The daily disbursement is similar to accepting Square payments as they transfer funds on the next business day. But they do it in one amount. I can see where it would become a bit much if it's going into your personal checking and there's a bunch of transactions.
We had a conversation about using not only a separate bank account but a separate bank as a business account with Ebay.
You can't purchase and print shipping labels with the new payment system?
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Post by chapeaunoir on Sept 9, 2018 7:08:03 GMT
Apparently not, according to the article. I find the entire thing to be so poorly thought through at this time that I'm surprised it's going to be out of beta. This whole thing of having sellers "guide" the process through (for free, of course) smacks of the same cheap tactics they're using for the catalog. Etsy, a much smaller and poorer site, did not need us to "guide" them through putting their payments together, they just put together a system with Adyen and did it.
My concern is not about the process of contained payments nor about using Adyen as a back end, it's that it's eBay trying to put it together. I had hoped to be proven wrong about this, but by now should have had it dinned through my thick and overly optimistic head that eBay can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Post by Pantlandia on Sept 9, 2018 7:35:15 GMT
Why on Earth would they not let us use the money from payments that we get through their payment system to purchase labels with? Utterly ridiculous. There is no reason they can't charge the labels to the account and then deposit whatever is left after the label is paid for.
I have stamps.com so it's not going to be a huge issue. Right now, my PayPal debit card is hooked up as the payment source for postage, but I'll change it to my bank card, but I shouldn't have to go through all these steps needlessly.
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Post by SA on Sept 9, 2018 14:51:47 GMT
I didn't read the article.
Why?
Because this is all in BETA testing right now and I know the way its running right now doesn't necessarily mean that's the way it's going to be when it rolls out to everyone.
It's just a waiting game until the "testing" is over.
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Post by Desire on Sept 9, 2018 15:33:58 GMT
Copy & Paste from the article:
The discussion was led by Vikas Mehta, who was described as leading the rollout of Payments in North America.
Mehta also clarified some terminology – what is rolling out this month is not a beta test, but rather, “It’s the initial launch of a multi year initiative to bring to life our vision on managing payments.” |
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Post by SA on Sept 9, 2018 15:37:49 GMT
But it's being test. "beta" or not.
Volunteers only. They're testing. And eBay has flat out said on many platforms that this is a test. They're doing this with a targeted select group so they can see how it works and make adjustments.
Beta or not. It's being tested and changes will be made when, where and if necessary. As with any select targeted group like this.
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Post by RetroMonde on Sept 9, 2018 15:38:48 GMT
I sorta skimmed the article figuring it was early and as usual I'd survive their changes yet again. But having to pay for postage for shipping a sale by using yet a different account than where the money from that sale is deposited? I thought they were talking seamless experience for buyers? Well, us sellers are THEIR buyers and having to have two different funding sources IS NOT SEAMLESS. Ridiculous!
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Post by SA on Sept 9, 2018 15:41:21 GMT
Sellers have a year or so to save for a day or three worth of shipping into your other account to adjust to this change.
Sellers don't have to pay for shipping out of Paypal if you don't want to.
Sellers can pay for it out of the account you have set up to accept your payments from eBay.
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Post by SA on Sept 9, 2018 16:01:14 GMT
OK. I read it. And then I read the actual Q&A that the article quoted.
C&P from the Q&A session:
We will continue to improve the experience by including PayPal as a method of payment, GSP inclusion, and better shipping integration post launch.
Sellers in the initial launch have an opportunity to influence how the world sells and gets paid on eBay.
Also:
There will be a maximum of one transaction per day (a batch payment made up of inidividual payments). The funds will be dispersed on the same day they eBay receives them from the credit card brands.
I guess I'm still having a hard time understanding how this is going to be a change for me to get my anxiety up about. For me personally, the only thing I need to do different is to get a new checking account to have my payments deposited to. And now I'll have to manage both a checking account AND a Paypal account for my business. eBay is giving me around a year to adjust to this change and so far I personally feel they've been pretty transparent about it all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 16:20:26 GMT
I'm not reading about it or panicking about it at this time. When it's time to take my head out of the sand have to make the change, I will figure it out, with eBay's guidance. Yes, I said eBay's guidance. I will make whatever adjustments I need to make at that time and I will carry on. I'm either in denial about possible complications or I'm of the mind that I will cross that bridge when I come to it. Or both. I have too many things on my plate to worry about right now and I'm not going to pile this on the same plate at this time.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Sept 9, 2018 18:12:21 GMT
There's no need to panic or anything else, and we don't need to be calmed, but we need to stay informed and proactive and not just trust that it'll be fine. Many of these questions (another one: refunds - such as shipping overages - will only be able to be given through the returns process) should have been worked out in beta - this is basic stuff here.
I've been through loads of conversions (computer conversions, systems conversions, several times financial conversions in companies I've worked for) and process is everything. It's why it's important to keep informed.
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val2525
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Post by val2525 on Sept 9, 2018 18:50:49 GMT
I'm not going to panic yet, I'll wait and see how it the initial launch survives the 4th quarter and holiday selling.
I do find the 4 day end of the processing schedule to be unusually long. Square has the money in your account next business day usually.
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Post by val2525 on Sept 9, 2018 18:56:24 GMT
That prompted more questions. A moderator facilitating the discussion reiterated: “You will not be able to use funds from sales for postage and eBay purchases.”
That’s a major sticking point for sellers due to cash flow issues. Currently, when a buyer pays for an item using PayPal, the seller has immediate access to those funds, which they can then use to pay for the shipping label – and other expenses, for that matter.
All eBay has to do is allow sellers to pay for shipping labels from PayPal, a bank account or credit card on file. The delay in funds from a specific sale is normal for all other processors. PayPal is the only one who gives immediate access to that money.
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Post by val2525 on Sept 9, 2018 18:59:34 GMT
One big thing about this bothers me. eBay is doing the "initial launch" this month with no apparent way for a buyer to know if their seller accepts PayPal UNLESS the PayPal logo is removed from those listings. But even then, we all know buyers don't pay attention and most won't even notice the missing logo - IF that is what eBay will do. This is going to result in a lot of pissed off buyers during the busiest time of the year.
WHY couldn't eBay plan the "initial" launch for January? Two months of beta testing is nothing, and they want to have this in place for the 4th quarter? I don't think the 4th quarter will be pretty here. Not at all.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Sept 9, 2018 19:04:04 GMT
Etsy has immediate access, as well, for onsite business (not for transfer of funds to bank account, though) - I just did two shipping overage refunds from existing funds and will ship from them as well. It's because the disbursals are weekly. That's the path eBay needs to take - sellers can decide how much they want to transfer, just like most of us have existing paypal balances to pay for various exigencies like refunds, extra postage, purchases, etc.
At this time, handling partial refunds and shipping labels through various round-about means is inefficient.
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Post by allikat on Sept 9, 2018 19:21:05 GMT
This stuck out to me in a post on Seller board.
Alan from eBay answered a question about how to issue a partial payment for overpayment of shipping costs....
Hi everyone,
Just to follow-up on the topic of partial refunds.
During the initial launch, for a seller to issue a partial refund to a buyer, the seller should ask the buyer to open a return request for their purchase, when the seller receives the return request, the seller will have the option to issue a partial refund through that flow and close the return request. This is the functionality for the initial launch, we'll continue to work with sellers over the multi-year journey and we'll build and introduce new features based on seller feedback.
As a buyer my concern would be if I initiate a return (what kind?) for partial refund of shipping would this keep me from being able to file SNAD or INR if needed once item was received. This seems to be an area they really need to work on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 19:43:37 GMT
Etsy has immediate access, as well, for onsite business (not for transfer of funds to bank account, though) - I just did two shipping overage refunds from existing funds and will ship from them as well. It's because the disbursals are weekly. That's the path eBay needs to take - sellers can decide how much they want to transfer, just like most of us have existing paypal balances to pay for various exigencies like refunds, extra postage, purchases, etc. At this time, handling partial refunds and shipping labels through various round-about means is inefficient. It's completely inefficient. They should have waited to launch until they had a contract ( terms ) with the USPS to print postage. And it's not just the USPS - Fedex and UPS. In a perfect world, sellers would have funds set aside for shipping/returns. The reality is - many sellers don't have a cushion, and that is going to cause problems. How does this help propel their guaranteed delivery policy? It doesn't. What Val said - I think non paying bidders are going to increase. " You don't take Paypal" Ebay really needs this to be successful because their sales growth is dismal. Profitability needs to come from somewhere to keep the investors happy. |
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Post by kritter on Sept 9, 2018 20:00:50 GMT
Oh yes, that will definitely be easier and more efficient  than doing what I do now. Now I go into Paypal, issue the shipping overpayment, and then send a PM to the buyer letting them know.
We may understand what the new process will be but how about new, occasional, or dumb as a rock buyers who will definitely muff up the new process while making it a bigger hassle for the seller.
I would rather stick a few dollars in the package and not have to deal with the back and forth with an overpayment.
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Post by Desire on Sept 9, 2018 20:14:51 GMT
This stuck out to me in a post on Seller board. Alan from eBay answered a question about how to issue a partial payment for overpayment of shipping costs.... Hi everyone,
Just to follow-up on the topic of partial refunds.
During the initial launch, for a seller to issue a partial refund to a buyer, the seller should ask the buyer to open a return request for their purchase, when the seller receives the return request, the seller will have the option to issue a partial refund through that flow and close the return request. This is the functionality for the initial launch, we'll continue to work with sellers over the multi-year journey and we'll build and introduce new features based on seller feedback.
As a buyer my concern would be if I initiate a return (what kind?) for partial refund of shipping would this keep me from being able to file SNAD or INR if needed once item was received. This seems to be an area they really need to work on.
I'm going to start enforcing my clause in my listings that buyers need to pay for combined shipping with one payment in one transaction if they want a shipping discount on shipping charges. I'm not going to continue to refund them a partial shipping fee because they can't follow this simple request. Who orders from an online catalog store one item at a time and pays for each item in separate transactions? Nowhere, only on ebay.
No way would I ever tell a buyer to open a return request to get shipping fees refunded. I can just imagine some clueless buyer checking off SNAD or INR. I'm also tired of paying ebay commission fees on shipping that I don't even get because I'm refunding half of it to the buyer for a combined shipping refund.
ETA: So many times I lose $$ because combined shipping takes it to Priority instead of 2 or 3 first class low weight items. If going to the opposite coast, if it goes over 1 or 2 lbs, I lose quite a bit on sending a refund for combing.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Sept 9, 2018 22:53:30 GMT
For the first roll out, even though it's 4th quarter it's a volunteer group of sellers so it won't affect all of us. There *is* some value to having this launch now with live testing because if anything is going to happen, it'll be during the Christmas run-up.
The repetition of this: the multi-year journey I find a little strange - this isn't exactly a Brave New World they're going into, they're simply changing their payments system and needlessly complicating something that's going to be already complicated enough. A marketplace isn't really going to withstand very well a 'multi-year journey' while they figure this out - it needs to be done ASAP and with the least amount of friction and failure points. Adyen handles the backend for so many of these accounts they can probably tell them in their sleep what to do, but it's not their purview.
Hopefully this test group will provide enough feedback and answers.
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Post by val2525 on Sept 10, 2018 0:09:17 GMT
I'm going to start enforcing my clause in my listings that buyers need to pay for combined shipping with one payment in one transaction if they want a shipping discount on shipping charges. I'm not going to continue to refund them a partial shipping fee because they can't follow this simple request. Who orders from an online catalog store one item at a time and pays for each item in separate transactions? Nowhere, only on ebay.
The shopping cart has been on the site now for several years and yet many buyers are still clueless about it. IMO, eBay needs to do a big push on the site to get buyers used to using the shopping cart before the new payment service is implemented for everyone. Meanwhile, I'm tired of buyers not reading. They pay separately and get overcharged for postage, it's not my problem. I don't refund it any more. |
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Post by kat on Sept 10, 2018 0:25:11 GMT
Has anyone in this group opted in?
I declined the invite but am getting called weekly about it. The perks would be nice, so maybe in January or February. I keep being told I can opt in later so we’ll see.
It’s only sellers in the beta that cannot take PayPal or international payments.
When it rolls out to all of us we will not have those restrictions.
As far as I know, nothing has been released about PayPal renewing its contract with eBay. I have also read conflicting dates of when it expires. Both 2020 and 2023.
I’m not going to give this payments thing another thought until I opt in or we get the announcements except for shop around for a good online bank to use for it.
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Post by val2525 on Sept 10, 2018 0:53:45 GMT
Has anyone in this group opted in? I declined the invite but am getting called weekly about it. The perks would be nice, so maybe in January or February. I keep being told I can opt in later so we’ll see. No email invites for me. I don't sell much international so I'd consider opting in if I were invited. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 1:50:54 GMT
A bit off topic: A few people have mentioned getting business checking accounts for Ebay's new payment processing system. This is something that should be considered even if you're not a part of the new system at this point. This conversation came up in another thread and it's worth repeating. If you are conducting business through your personal checking acct, or if you have your business account at the same bank where you have personal accounts, then your bank can draw from those personal accounts ( if needed ) to fund Paypal or Ebay if there is a shortage or problem. There is most likely a disclaimer in your accounts that allow this. There are some positives in keeping both business and personal in the same bank. For us, we don't do that. We separate everything out. So weigh it out. Desire I think you mentioned that you keep your business and personal at separate banks, yes? |
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Post by SA on Sept 10, 2018 2:37:11 GMT
I've been strictly using Paypal as my business account. I know, people are super scared of that. I haven't had any problems all these years. It's been very easy for me.
I pay myself every 2 weeks from Paypal.
I've been meaning to get a business checking account, but I've been dragging my feet because I honestly haven't had a "need".
Good point about keeping it at a different bank than my personal account. May look into the local credit union.
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Post by somany on Sept 10, 2018 3:02:17 GMT
I'm going to start enforcing my clause in my listings that buyers need to pay for combined shipping with one payment in one transaction if they want a shipping discount on shipping charges. I'm not going to continue to refund them a partial shipping fee because they can't follow this simple request. Who orders from an online catalog store one item at a time and pays for each item in separate transactions? Nowhere, only on ebay.
The shopping cart has been on the site now for several years and yet many buyers are still clueless about it. IMO, eBay needs to do a big push on the site to get buyers used to using the shopping cart before the new payment service is implemented for everyone. Meanwhile, I'm tired of buyers not reading. They pay separately and get overcharged for postage, it's not my problem. I don't refund it any more. Are buyers able to request combined shipping from sellers when the seller has “immediate payment required” checked? I think for awhile it couldn’t be done but not certain if it got resolved. Seems like I just had this come up not too long ago but I can’t remember the details. Maybe it’s just a matter of educating like Val says but if it’s a system problem, that needs to be fixed first. |
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Post by RetroMonde on Sept 10, 2018 3:13:16 GMT
I didn't see or hear anybody panicking about this (tho I didn't read the ECB comments yet today). But I still think it's a clunky stupid-asp way of setting up shipping and agree with Dantes that it should perhaps not be rolled out for anyone until it's truly a seamless process from start to finish for the sellers. The Etsy payment change went smoothly in spite of many sellers thinking the sky was gonna fall. But I'm not in the eBay Beta so the inconvenience is not an issue for me yet.
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Post by chapeaunoir on Sept 10, 2018 5:27:51 GMT
That's why I brought this up - it's good to be monitoring this and considering what we need to do to best deal with this, and also to best deal with any repercussions (buyer confusion, problems with combined shipping, etc.). I doubt anyone is upset or panicking about this lol. Etsy, OTOH, has the biggest bunch of Chicken Littles I've ever seen, and Etsy is way better at dealing with this stuff than eBay.
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