One Star Feedback

[frakinfashion]

I had a British buyer who complained bitterly about the customs fees she had to pay on a pin she bought. Just got her "one star" rating which said: "I was charged a large sum by British customs to be able to collect this item. It was not delivered because of the charge and I had to make a journey to the sorting office to pay the charge and collect the item. The broach was expensive anyway and when adding the delivery charge and the customs charge it was not worth the money. The seller had no sympathy for me when I advised them about the customs cost. I will not be buying from them again."
Unfortunately I protested to Etsy before coffee and didn't really do a good job of it but I hope that they will remove this feedback. It violates their policy in that she is complaining about a 3rd party--her country. This bird actually sent me a note to my PERSONAL email originally to complain--how? why? I pretended to be a shipping department and made her send her email through Etsy so that they could see it. I then responded, extremely sympathetically through the site as this had happened to me when I recently bought eyeglass frames from France and didn't anticipate a customs charge. She wanted ME to PAY the customs fee and that is why she is pissed as that wasn't going to happen--as if its my fault that she didn't read the default TOS on the site which state that these fees are the buyer's responsibility. 

So, does Etsy respond to all sellers' challenges to feedback. I've submitted mine as I said. How long do they take to respond generally? I hope this gets removed but if it doesn't I will write a response. And yes, I trust she will keep her promise not to buy again. Please.

[RetroMonde]

That's outrageous Fraking; I'm so weary of dealing with folk that have issues with shipping costs & THEIR country's customs fees. It's not like we sellers can control any of that! I wish I had good, helpful advice but I'm still appalled at their advice given to DS's girlfriend when a buyer nuked her with NINE negs for a multiple purchase. She emailed Etsy for help and to explain the situation; their answer was to "work it out with the buyer". That was simply unacceptable. And when I got reamed by a Brit about excessive customs fees on a sewing pattern purchase (which I was right about) Etsy also remained silent when I asked for help. Much as I complain about eBay sometimes, their customer service is at least accessible and often very helpful in cases like this.

Fingers crossed they help you but get working on your calm response to the 1 star FB in case they don't. Your buyer's complaint sounds whiney and stupid... her FB should do no harm to your biz.

Good luck ((Frakin))

[frakinfashion]

Jan 2, 2018 18:26:32 GMT RetroMonde said:

That's outrageous Fraking; I'm so weary of dealing with folk that have issues with shipping costs & THEIR country's customs fees. It's not like we sellers can control any of that! I wish I had good, helpful advice but I'm still appalled at their advice given to DS's girlfriend when a buyer nuked her with NINE negs for a multiple purchase. She emailed Etsy for help and to explain the situation; their answer was to "work it out with the buyer". That was simply unacceptable. And when I got reamed by a Brit about excessive customs fees on a sewing pattern purchase (which I was right about) Etsy also remained silent when I asked for help. Much as I complain about eBay sometimes, their customer service is at least accessible and often very helpful in cases like this.

Fingers crossed they help you but get working on your calm response to the 1 star FB in case they don't. Your buyer's complaint sounds whiney and stupid... her FB should do no harm to your biz.

Good luck ((Frakin))

They just denied my request to remove this feedback which is unbelievable as it clearly violates their policy. Is there an email address that you know about that I can contact them again. The one on the denial letter doesn't take replies (for obvious reasons). 

[frakinfashion]

Okay, I figured out how to call them and get this to the escalation dept. So we'll see. A glimmer of hope.

[Pantlandia]

I'd post in their forums too. Sometimes they are even more ridiculous than eBay...

[val2525]

File a complaint with the better business bureau where Etsy is located. Can't hurt!

[chapeaunoir]

I hope you get resolution on this - that feedback should be removable under their OWN policies!

ETA: And don't answer it yet - that locks the feedback in. 

[Deleted]

I was going to suggest calling them, emailing usually doesn't do any good. Calling generally gets it removed. This is a clear violation, I can't believe it wasn't immediately removed. Also like Chap said, don't respond, just leave it. Good news is, everyone else can clearly see she's a loon. It in now way reflects badly on you or your products. If anything it warns other scammy buyers away from your shop. They will know you won't lie on customs forms or pay their fees for them. So until you can get it removed it will be a nice warning.

[RetroMonde]

I didn't know they had any kind of CS phone help available. All our communication was done online. Seems like the new CEO said they were gonna invest in customer service this year... about time!

[frakinfashion]

RetroMonde  You have to go through contortions to stumble upon a "call me" option. I can't even remember how I did it.

So ARRRRRRRRGHHHH! The "escalations" department has denied my appeal to get the feedback removed. I'd like to take Pantlandia 's advice and write about it for discussion on the Etsy forum but admittedly I am angry and I don't want to get thrown off the site or exacerbate the situation in any way. I'm fairly new to Etsy. If it was eBay I would have no hesitation. So here is what I propose to write and I invite your comments on it's advisability/any consequences before I do. TIA. Also, here's how I plan to respond to the twit's feedback-- "Buyer unaware of UK customs fees and is incensed that we will not reimburse her for them. Enough said." Should I write to her to ask her to revise first or not bother? 

Here is my proposed Forum post:

Warning: International buyers can punish you if you won't pay their customs fees

We had a British buyer who was unaware that her country would charge her customs fees for a purchase from the US. She was incensed by this and demanded that we pay the fees incurred. When we ultimately refused to do that, after a long and sympathetic email exchange about how this is unfortunately her responsibility, she left us a 1 star review stating her displeasure about the customs fees and the inconvenience of having to pick up her purchase at her local post office.

This was a clear violation of Etsy feedback policy. She was punishing us for 1. her country's customs laws, 2. the fact that she had to pick up her package in order to pay the customs fees and, mostly 3. the fact that we would not reimburse her for the fees.

We asked Etsy to remove this review as it violates their prohibition against feedback about 3rd parties. The buyer's displeasure was TOTALLY about British law and postal policies and how she would not have bought the item had she understood what it would ultimately cost her. There was NO complaint about the quality/condition of the item she bought or our service in getting it to her in a timely manner. These facts were further supported by our email exchanges with her.

Etsy refused to remove the feedback. We called and protested. The nice Etsy rep on the phone told us she understood and would send it to "escalations" where a "fresh set of eyes" would look at it. This was not true.

Today, we get the email of the resolution. The "fresh set of eyes" was the SAME person who erroneously reviewed it the first time. No surprise that the reviewer agreed with himself and continued to demonstrate no understanding of the issue.

Be warned that Etsy does not support sellers by enforcing their own policies which are stated on this site. The 3rd party rule is completely ignored and even though Etsy clearly states in its default terms of sale that buyers are responsible for knowing about and paying any customs fees for international sales, that too is unenforced.

In short, Etsy viewed this feedback as "a reflection of the buyer's overall experience with this transaction." Unbelievable. It is no more that than if she had gotten indigestion eating a sandwich while opening the package.

[Pantlandia]

I posted in the forums to get a response from the long time sellers...90% said Etsy will/should remove it, 10% said they aren't sure.

Sorry if I overstepped, I just wanted to get some input from the people in know over there.

[frakinfashion]

No over stepping. That's fine. I still want to post my rant there because I want Etsy to see it. But I want to be mad at them, I don't want them mad at me.

I just had someone from the Netherlands buy something expensive. I sure hope she realizes she may have to pay customs. I wish I didn't have to sell internationally at all but I do. It's too full of anxiety.

[chapeaunoir]

If you need to leave a reply for this dolt, I would be very dry and keep it short, something like:

We realize that the customs charges on international importation can be high. We tried sympathetically and very hard to explain that customs and duties are the responsibility of the buyer, and always have been, this includes ourselves when we purchase internationally. This is simply the law and has never changed.

[frakinfashion]

Well, I put my saga in the discussion section at Etsy. 76 replies so far. Most them say they no longer sell internationally because it's so fraught with problems. I would hate to stop as I have had good international buyers there. It seems the UK buyers are not as aware as other countries about their customs fees. This only happened one other time to me, on eBay, and it was a UK buyer. She didn't ding my feedback though.

[frakinfashion]

In case anyone stops by, here is what I'd like to leave as a response to the review, if it fits. I've never done this on Etsy, or even on eBay or that matter:
We’re sorry you were blindsided by your country’s customs fees. As we wrote you, it’s happened to us and we share your dismay. However, we can’t agree to your demand that we reimburse you for them. We’re glad you have no complaint about the pin’s quality, condition or its careful packaging and hope you will enjoy wearing it.

I am now in the process of updating all 200 listings there to warn International Buyers about the possibility of customs fees. Oh, what a chore.

[chapeaunoir]

Because they cut the descriptions off after 1100 characters (they chop them way short if you have even 1 character over that), I no longer have room for the warning, but I have it in my policies, and now that they're cramming everything onto one page (which is OK, it's just that their order is ridiculous) I just hope that they see it.

[Deleted]

Your policies already say "Buyers are responsible for any customs and import taxes that may apply. I'm not responsible for delays due to customs," so there shouldn't be a need to add it again (although you surely could if you feel like it, just trying to spare you some editing nightmares lol).

It probably wasn't removed because it read more like a complaint about the cost of the brooch including the fees, and included the [bizarre] opinion you were "unsympathetic" about the situation. To qualify for removal, she would have had to blame YOU for customs faults, like as in, "More shipping was due for me to pick this up and the seller didn't help" would be accusing you of wrongdoing, instead of a complaint over expenses and your lack of... passing her a tissue or something? Sorry!

[chapeaunoir]

Etsy almost never removes reviews, they also don't penalize you for them, either, and leave loads of room for a reply. I got hit with a 1-star review because someone just did not read the description, and over and above that all but accused me of fraud. I wrote her but she wouldn't change her mind when I explained and offered to take the item back - she didn't read and she tried to make out that somehow I had misled her. I finally replied to the review with head-shaking sorrow explaining that this was nothing else than advertised, that I take no-hassle returns but wasn't even able to assist this buyer with her complaint because she gave the item away. I said nothing about the buyer not reading, etc.

Didn't affect my sales one bit.


ETA: Yes, she had given the item away.  

[frakinfashion]

Jan 17, 2018 3:10:49 GMT @greenkim said:

Your policies already say "Buyers are responsible for any customs and import taxes that may apply. I'm not responsible for delays due to customs," so there shouldn't be a need to add it again (although you surely could if you feel like it, just trying to spare you some editing nightmares lol).

It probably wasn't removed because it read more like a complaint about the cost of the brooch including the fees, and included the [bizarre] opinion you were "unsympathetic" about the situation. To qualify for removal, she would have had to blame YOU for customs faults, like as in, "More shipping was due for me to pick this up and the seller didn't help" would be accusing you of wrongdoing, instead of a complaint over expenses and your lack of... passing her a tissue or something? Sorry!

I already updated all my listing descriptions to reiterate that buyers may have customs fees and I'm not paying them. 
The joke is, I was very sympathetic to this mook, as something similar happened to me when I recently bought eyeglass frames from France. But I didn't blame the seller. When she says "unsympathetic", she means I wouldn't pay her customs fees. Etsy could have read our email exchanges and seen that. I don't want to stop selling overseas because, lately, I've been getting a lot of sales from Europe and Australia. But really, this one was hard to take.

As far as the cost of the brooch, that's a determination buyers make before buying--is the item worth it to them. That is not something that Etsy should let be in feedback as a criticism of the seller. She wasn't saying that there was something wrong with what she bought, that its quality wasn't worth the price, but that it was too much money given that she had to pay unexpected customs fees. She considered the pin already expensive for her and then, when customs were added on top of the price, it wasn't worth it to her. That's not a criticism of the item or the service in getting it to her. That is exactly the type of feedback that should be removed as it is misleading to other potential buyers. 

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2018 5:02:16 GMT chapeaunoir said:

Etsy almost never removes reviews, they also don't penalize you for them, either, and leave loads of room for a reply. I got hit with a 1-star review because someone just did not read the description, and over and above that all but accused me of fraud. I wrote her but she wouldn't change her mind when I explained and offered to take the item back - she didn't read and she tried to make out that somehow I had misled her. I finally replied to the review with head-shaking sorrow explaining that this was nothing else than advertised, that I take no-hassle returns but wasn't even able to assist this buyer with her complaint because she gave the item away. I said nothing about the buyer not reading, etc.

Didn't affect my sales one bit.


ETA: Yes, she had given the item away.  

You're so completely right about a bad review not really affecting anything.  *Maybe* if you're a brand new shop with no real other history and you get hit with a psycho (just like on eBay, we'll see a certain special breed who will target newbies for scams) it would be easier to close the account and start fresh on a new one.  They are not tied to any sort of internal defect system, and although there are a few sellers who swear (without any evidence aside from a "feeling") that the search system punishes them for a bad review, any seller who has been keeping up with Etsy newsletters the past few years know the search is only really tied to how well you categorize and add attributes, and the SEO and tags.  We have thousands of incredibly successful sellers in our group, several of them within the admin pool so I have the privilege of knowing them much more intimately - they get the same ratio of problem transactions as everyone else, get the same ratio of unlucky bad reviews, and are still slamming it - because they keep up with changes and are constantly evolving.  One of my friends right now is dealing with a customer who outright lied in her review (when ordering the customer claimed the widget for herself in their communication exchange for a custom made item, in the review she stated it was a Christmas gift for someone else that arrived after the holiday so my friend ruined Christmas for her recipient) and my friend can prove it, and Etsy still won't remove the review.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2018 8:19:07 GMT frakinfashion said:

Jan 17, 2018 3:10:49 GMT @greenkim said:

Your policies already say "Buyers are responsible for any customs and import taxes that may apply. I'm not responsible for delays due to customs," so there shouldn't be a need to add it again (although you surely could if you feel like it, just trying to spare you some editing nightmares lol).

It probably wasn't removed because it read more like a complaint about the cost of the brooch including the fees, and included the [bizarre] opinion you were "unsympathetic" about the situation. To qualify for removal, she would have had to blame YOU for customs faults, like as in, "More shipping was due for me to pick this up and the seller didn't help" would be accusing you of wrongdoing, instead of a complaint over expenses and your lack of... passing her a tissue or something? Sorry!

I already updated all my listing descriptions to reiterate that buyers may have customs fees and I'm not paying them. 
The joke is, I was very sympathetic to this mook, as something similar happened to me when I recently bought eyeglass frames from France. But I didn't blame the seller. When she says "unsympathetic", she means I wouldn't pay her customs fees. Etsy could have read our email exchanges and seen that. I don't want to stop selling overseas because, lately, I've been getting a lot of sales from Europe and Australia. But really, this one was hard to take.

As far as the cost of the brooch, that's a determination buyers make before buying--is the item worth it to them. That is not something that Etsy should let be in feedback as a criticism of the seller. She wasn't saying that there was something wrong with what she bought, that its quality wasn't worth the price, but that it was too much money given that she had to pay unexpected customs fees. She considered the pin already expensive for her and then, when customs were added on top of the price, it wasn't worth it to her. That's not a criticism of the item or the service in getting it to her. That is exactly the type of feedback that should be removed as it is misleading to other potential buyers. 

I completely understood this   I'm sorry you got hit with a problem buyer.  One of my friends over on Etsy likes to remind people who are struggling with international buyers that if someone gets to be an mail-using adult doesn't know about customs, they are lying.  It's my personal suspicion that this buyer has tried this exact spiel before on someone else, and therefore knew exactly how to craft a review that didn't violate policy enough to qualify for removal.  Until the seller responds which locks in a review, sometimes they still think there is a chance that a seller will fall at their feet before them with cash and free stuff to preserve their reviews.  However... reviews aren't really tied to much on Etsy...  Personally, I prefer to go ahead and let the crazy buyers out themselves and move on to my crafts for my not crazy buyers

[frakinfashion]

I'm with you @greenkim. I will not give in to petulance or extortion for the sake of a review or feedback. But since I'm pretty new to Etsy and don't have that many reviews, one ding can look overly dramatic. In the grand scheme of things, of course, it's all meaningless. We do our best and move on.

[sunsetpainter]

As an Etsy seller, I'm a little paranoid about my stars. I strive to be perfect for every buyer. As an Etsy buyer, if I see a low star review, I will take into consideration all the positive reviews and weigh it against the bad review. More often than not, I can tell it was a PITA buyer that left it and wouldn't be worried at all about that seller.

I had ordered a custom t-shirt for DH for Christmas from an Etsy seller. The first one was flat out wrong. I messaged her and she sent out a new one very quickly. The second one was even more wrong than the first. I could tell she felt awful about it and said she'd ship another new on express if I wanted. I really didn't need it that fast and told her to enjoy the holiday, and after Christmas would be fine. The third one was perfect. I could have left her a bad review, and someone else may have, but I feel some things are beyond our control (she had others helping in her shop for the holiday orders). I left her 5 *s and wouldn't hesitate to buy from her again.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2018 15:13:39 GMT frakinfashion said:

I'm with you @greenkim . I will not give in to petulance or extortion for the sake of a review or feedback. But since I'm pretty new to Etsy and don't have that many reviews, one ding can look overly dramatic. In the grand scheme of things, of course, it's all meaningless. We do our best and move on.

I wouldn't sweat over that review, your buyer makes herself look silly.  If this happens again, you can try a different approach that will help them look sillier.  "We're sorry you did not expect a customs fee, this is the reason why both shop policy and Etsy remind international buyers to consult their local customs before purchase."

It will get buried soon enough.  You have some lovely things, I've been dropping some hearts <3

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2018 16:32:48 GMT sunsetpainter said:

As an Etsy seller, I'm a little paranoid about my stars. I strive to be perfect for every buyer. As an Etsy buyer, if I see a low star review, I will take into consideration all the positive reviews and weigh it against the bad review. More often than not, I can tell it was a PITA buyer that left it and wouldn't be worried at all about that seller.

I had ordered a custom t-shirt for DH for Christmas from an Etsy seller. The first one was flat out wrong. I messaged her and she sent out a new one very quickly. The second one was even more wrong than the first. I could tell she felt awful about it and said she'd ship another new on express if I wanted. I really didn't need it that fast and told her to enjoy the holiday, and after Christmas would be fine. The third one was perfect. I could have left her a bad review, and someone else may have, but I feel some things are beyond our control (she had others helping in her shop for the holiday orders). I left her 5 *s and wouldn't hesitate to buy from her again.

 Mercy is a great kindness <3  I am also a huge believer in "professional courtesy" when stuff goes wrong but the wrongdoer is awesome.  This past Christmas season was just brutal on a lot of shops, we have people who haven't even reopened yet lol.  I have a friend who opened a second shop entirely with a different medium because she still can't bear to look at her sewing machine yet!

[chapeaunoir]

And really, most people understand mistakes happen - it's how the merchant/provider takes care of the problem that really matters. You hear it all the time that someone purchases something, it goes wrong but the merchant gets on it right away, services their customer, makes sure that they are made whole, and they gain a loyal customer because of this.