New round of store closures - Ann Taylor, Dressbarn, & more

[SA]

Chap, yep I was just referencing the Springs. It's nothing to rent a "room" in a shared and cramped apartment for $1000/mo in Denver.
We feel the taxes here are pretty low. We considered going back to CA 2 years ago. We considered it. Let the military move us then retire there. Freaking taxes there are just crazy. But then again - we really like the central coast/SoCal.  I'm sure once DS gets all graduated and figures something out for college we'll end up leaving here.  I don't see this place as our final retirement spot.  But for now it will do just fine.

Maybe you like more culture? From being in DC? I lived outside of DC too & that's a place with world class amenities & cultural experiences. I was a kid though & couldn't appreciate it at the time .

BINGO!  I totally think that's it.  DS had had friends visit him from both DC and CA.  One thing that they BOTH said (different sets of friends that don't know each other) was "It's so.......white......here".  Compared to where we have lived, I agree.  Absolutely nothing wrong with being white - I am - but we've been surrounded by a great mix of cultures/ethnicities/communities for 7 years before moving here.  It was just strange to come to "suburbia".  But it's been 3 years and we have built our own little bubble.  I don't pay much attention to much else for the sake of my own sanity. But yeah, DS friends said it's pretty here, but that's about it.  Other than visiting with him they didn't care for it here at all.

It's so funny because I am seeing Denver as something totally different than you do.  I definitely won't disagree with you because it's all personal perception.  Can't help liking what you like and someone else doesn't (I'm more offended you don't care for my favorite Panera salad   )  But even DS said he can't stand Denver.  He said the people that are there are so self centered and it's annoying.  He said it has this "I'm a 28 year old man that's still trying to hang onto my frat boy status". But it's because of the Colorado Implants.  They've started to outnumber the natives and those that have been here awhile.  I have no other way to describe it.  I think it's because we came here from DC.  

I will agree that other than the wildfires and hail storms, this place is a great escape from the major natural disasters.

But back to the original thread (EEK - WOW - THIS WENT WAY OFF TOPIC - SORRY) I can see most retailers scaling down their store #s. It will be interesting to see what happens with retail 25 years from now.  We will be all futuristic and drones will bring us clothing to try on?  Or will it be back to our roots and "shop small" will be bigger than ever.....

[Deleted]

Liz - even though we differ on our thoughts of Denver/Colorado, I can respect that you at least have a goal to get out of here. When your son graduates? People should live where they'll be happy.

I hate when people move or live in an area and they want it to be the place they came from or turn it into something else. I think those people should move. But most of them stay and complain about what it's not. I'm NOT speaking about you. In general I've seen it. People in the Springs area and then people in Boulder complaining it's Boulder. Huh? Rather than insult the people you live by, move.  Boulder is Boulder and it's not going to change. 

ETA: I think the Gov is signing the bill to ease up on the multi family defect lawsuits. They think the builders may shift from rentals to condos and townhomes. THAT is going to help all the entry level home buyers - if they keep the buildings at a reasonable price point. Not the luxury / high dollar point that is happening in Denver.

[Deleted]

Back to ecommerce. This: www.denverpost.com/2017/06/12/amazon-thornton-fulfillment-center/

It's a bit South of us. One corner has a lifestyle center with outdoor shopping/movie theater/condo/apartments. The other corner is suppose to have outlets going in, and then Amazon is taking another corner, down from a Cabelas that is always packed.

This Amazon center is suppose to create 1500 jobs. Not all at a great pay, but they'll also have robots. They're saying that it can stock 50% more inventory because of the robots.

Interesting.

That area is going to be hot for shopping. I was thinking about seeing if I could work my food truck into the area at a later date.

[SA]

But even swinging around and going back to the micro-apartments or even full apartments in abandoned malls:
This is a GREAT idea for rent controlled property type deal.
Like I said I follow a lot of local groups and one of them is a realtor who runs a FB page to help people find rentals (he makes no $$ from it, he just believes in affordable housing).
Every single day people are desperate.
Section 8? They aren't even taking applications. I've read it only opens like 1 or 2 days a year and then all the vouchers are gone for the year. And in turn, vouchers end up expiring because people cannot find rentals for what their vouchers will pay. Because rent has spiked.
Of course there is a cap - it's the housing that was $700/mo 2 years ago that's now going for $1000/mo. Unless you rent a place with roaches, bed bugs, mold falling through the ceiling and blood smeared on the wall.
The people that were barely getting by last year are now homeless. And the struggling lower end of the middle class is slipping fast.
THAT'S who I'd like to see get into communities like this.

[chapeaunoir]

It's definitely cheaper in the smaller cities than in Seattle. I live north of Seattle - Edmonds is actually closer to me than Seattle proper and easier to get to - I would not live in Seattle proper again if I can help it, though I'm sure it's fine for a lot of people. Too expensive, too congested, though transportation options are really improving. Only 30% of downtown workers drive a solo car anymore. With the tunnel and rapid ride it's very easy to get back and forth.

The large Northgate mall complex that is re-building up north has the transit center right next to it - you can get to all points there and it's very busy. Soon the tunnel will be built up to Northgate and it'll take minutes to get downtown. That's one really important thing about 'villages' - they need to be concentrated near transportation, or if not, then services close by.

That works synergistically with the changes in retail now - people will be likely to purchase necessities close to home (a good grocery market, for example) and like restaurant opportunities, but are not likely to want to drive 30 miles just to hang out in a mall and buy stuff unless it's speciality items (home dec, etc.) - you can get that online. It expands both choices and efficiency. There's a lot of good land under those huge parking lots - it needs to be liberated!

[Deleted]

I love the idea of micro apartments converted from abandoned buildings. We had a discussion about this a while back and it was brought up, I think @martha11234 was knowledgeable about some of them in New York. 

Also - builders need incentive to go the low cost route. There should be some housing relief from the defect law, but then you still need builders willing to take less or get subsidized. 

Denver/Colorado is a tough one. We have low supply ( since the housing crisis ), a law with unintended consequences, and people moving here because of new industry/job growth, and a great economy. Our housing prices are legit. 

[Deleted]

I forgot about this when talking about housing cost - our water tap fees. They are some of the highest in the country. We paid 27k for them to drop it at the street. We did the rest. I compared the cost to surrounding counties and all of them are up there.

To get a 6" tap - for some developers - it's over a million dollars. We had a friend purchase an old farm acreage because of the tap sitting on the property.

Many of these new homes being built have 75k in utilities before a piece of wood is purchased.

We are a desert community.

[val2525]

Zoe, I'm comparing DEN roads to PHX - PHX wins hands down. And no toll roads in PHX

A client opened an office in the Denver metro and we were floored to discover three of the cities in the metro have what amounts to an employee tax. Seriously. WTH? You'd think a city would want companies hiring there. I've never encountered that before, and I've lived in multiple states/metros.

[val2525]

We have a rental shortage here in little ole ABQ. Builders are building either high end luxury multi-family, or they're taking advantage of tax credit programs with the city/county and building income restricted units. The folks in the middle are being screwed and squeezed out. There is simply no incentive to build middle market multifamily here. Sad thing is, those kind of complexes would be fully leased in 2 months or less of opening, but no one wants to build them. It's not even a case of land being expensive, because it's not expensive here (with a couple of small exceptions).

One of the malls here has actually turned itself around since I've been living here. Now fully leased, with new out parcels being built. When any one closes/moves out, space is snapped up fast. Sears downsized and The Container Store is moving into the other half of what was Sears. The upscale shopping center a block down is booming, and the oldest mall in the state is being renovated into an open air shopping area with apartments and business offices planned too. However - unlike many cities our size - we suffered from a lack of good retail chains for decades and it's just now catching up with demand.

[mupcycledcouture]

Fun fact, I was born and raised in Denver and I remember a time when the highways werent packed, housing wasnt stupid expensive and driving to the mountains was enjoyable.

I am sad that they are closing down beautiful parks like Hanging Lakes and others because people are trashing them. A guy just started a petition because he isnt happy because there are geese in City Park. Dog parks are being closed because people wont pick up after them and it is contaminating our water.

CDOT has been in a financial crunch for years. Back in the 90's when I worked for the state, CDOT was hurting for money. CO legislature, both sides, have funneled money elsewhere for a long time and now it is biting them in the a$$. I take E470 whenever I can too. It is worth every dime.

I dont like the "widening" they are doing on other highways that are then turned into toll roads. It does nothing to eliminate congestion.

[Deleted]

I was reading about the geese debate. They're adding a children's park and want to eliminate some of the geese.  One woman suggested using border collies to herd the geese away from where kids are playing. It would actually work if they could put together a good volunteer program.

I'm just sad about what I see happening out here. The leave no trace concept is lost.

[zoesam]

Jun 13, 2017 0:39:47 GMT SA said:

Chap, yep I was just referencing the Springs. It's nothing to rent a "room" in a shared and cramped apartment for $1000/mo in Denver.
We feel the taxes here are pretty low. We considered going back to CA 2 years ago. We considered it. Let the military move us then retire there. Freaking taxes there are just crazy. But then again - we really like the central coast/SoCal.  I'm sure once DS gets all graduated and figures something out for college we'll end up leaving here.  I don't see this place as our final retirement spot.  But for now it will do just fine.

Maybe you like more culture? From being in DC? I lived outside of DC too & that's a place with world class amenities & cultural experiences. I was a kid though & couldn't appreciate it at the time .

BINGO!  I totally think that's it.  DS had had friends visit him from both DC and CA.  One thing that they BOTH said (different sets of friends that don't know each other) was "It's so.......white......here".  Compared to where we have lived, I agree.  Absolutely nothing wrong with being white - I am - but we've been surrounded by a great mix of cultures/ethnicities/communities for 7 years before moving here.  It was just strange to come to "suburbia".  But it's been 3 years and we have built our own little bubble.  I don't pay much attention to much else for the sake of my own sanity. But yeah, DS friends said it's pretty here, but that's about it.  Other than visiting with him they didn't care for it here at all.

It's so funny because I am seeing Denver as something totally different than you do.  I definitely won't disagree with you because it's all personal perception.  Can't help liking what you like and someone else doesn't (I'm more offended you don't care for my favorite Panera salad   )  But even DS said he can't stand Denver.  He said the people that are there are so self centered and it's annoying.  He said it has this "I'm a 28 year old man that's still trying to hang onto my frat boy status". But it's because of the Colorado Implants.  They've started to outnumber the natives and those that have been here awhile.  I have no other way to describe it.  I think it's because we came here from DC.  

I will agree that other than the wildfires and hail storms, this place is a great escape from the major natural disasters.

Well, if it's any consolation, I wanted to LOVE your Panera salad LOL.  I even tried it again yesterday, b/c it should taste better than it does.   It's a culture issue, the lettuce is too bland.  I guess it is romaine, but it needs some dark leafy greens & spinach LOL.  

Anyway, I'm not at all offended.  We have different things than the coasts & I've known for a long time that this is the place for me.  OTOH, like Mup said, I remember before Park Meadows existed, that whole area was nothing but fields.  Parker was 1 or 2 subdivisions & rolling fields.  I travelled here all the time for business for a good 10 years before we moved here.  I spent a ton of time here & hung out with both my clients & some friends in the Denver office.  It wasn't that long ago when the traffic moved much better, it wasn't nearly as built up, etc.  

I didn't mean culture in quite the way you're using it, but I can see that point too.  For me, I lived in Mpls, so I was used to the white homogeny thing LOL. Even when I lived in Cleveland, the segregation is notorious there.  I guess b/c I was born in another country, even in all those places, I tend to attract people with a world view, who are often from other countries, so that hasn't been much of an issue for me.  I was more referring to the cultural aspect of things to do. I do imagine that all the influx of people from everywhere, has changed Denver.  It's certainly changed the Springs.  Before I moved here, I found the people in Denver to be super down to earth, very friendly (just like Mpls) & easygoing.  I have no doubt that that's changed in the last 15+ years.  I do think Denver is appealing to a lot of young men & urban singles, so I totally get what your son is saying.  I'll have to take you to some of my secret places, so you can at least get a peek before you leave.  Maybe it's not even so much about Denver, as it is Colorado for me.  I am in love with the natural beauty, I'm a geology nut, the state is arguably one of the richest in natural beauty (Chap's ranks right up there too, had one of the best days of my life there) & for me, living in a non-city isn't an option, so via process of elimination there aren't that many places to live here.  If my DH were to ever lose his job, we'd want to be near a city with a strong IT presence.    

I love E-470 too.  It's expensive, but one of my closest friends was in Broomfield & it was a lifesaver for visiting her.  I was reading an article though that toll roads are starting to crop up all over the country.  It used to be more of an east coast thing & now it's become more popular everywhere due to economics.    

So many of these stores that are closing, we've just gotten down here & it's hard to relate b/c the building here is through the roof.  Another new Sprouts just last month, tons of new retail.  4 new shopping areas popping up & the city is moving the Field of Dreams, a world class "youth" sports complex that is supposedly going to be an international destination, to the middle of one of one of them, which is a great move, as they were going to put it in a residential hood where it had been billed as a "neighborhood park".  Then this shopping complex is finally moving dirt: 

www.loopnet.com/Listing/19015095/Chapel-Hills-Drive-Colorado-Springs-CO/

It's basically right next to our lifestyle center & the only upscale shopping down here, so I think it's going to be kind of an extension to Shops at Briargate. Which is still always so packed, that it's hard to park.  So the very stores that are closing in other areas, are brand new here.  We just got a Soft Surroundings (which is NOT good cuz I love that place). 

 

[SA]

I went into that Soft Surroundings store. Never been in one. NOW I KNOW why I have no problem moving that brand LOL! That crap is expensive right out the door.
Interesting link on the Chapel Hills Drive thing. I think it will definitely cripple the mall (that seems to already be hurting).

I'm not saying we're leaving here anytime soon. Only time will tell what will happen. This place could end up really growing on us. Or the changes that could pop up could be a fit for us. OR - and we've discussed this too, we could just make this "home base" and travel to the places we love when the time comes.

Oh, and yes, DC/VA has so much different stuff to do. You could be at the Natural History Museum (free) one day, then enjoying one of 40 food trucks on the waterfront before a Nats game at the ballpark then go hiking on the Appalachian trail the next. The coast and NYC are a quick drive or train ride away. The shopping. The food. UGH - now I want to plan a DC trip   Think CO is growing fast?  DC has nearly no room to expand, but somehow they made it happen in the 3 years we were there.  More stuff in a smaller place was fit in place the 3 years we were there vs the growth here in the 3 years we've been.

[zoesam]

Jun 13, 2017 20:58:54 GMT SA said:

I went into that Soft Surroundings store. Never been in one. NOW I KNOW why I have no problem moving that brand LOL! That crap is expensive right out the door.

The shopping. The food. UGH - now I want to plan a DC trip   Think CO is growing fast?  DC has nearly no room to expand, but somehow they made it happen in the 3 years we were there.  

SS is expensive!  But I get coupons in their catalogs.  They also have an online outlet store, which I haven't shopped yet.  Some of the stuff is too frilly for my taste, but the older I get, the #1 criteria for my clothes is soft & comfy & they have that in droves.  I hope they do well here.  They seem to do well in Park Meadows, b/c I want to start shopping there more.  It will be interesting with all these stores closing, to see what goes in the new center.  So far, the other 3 new retail places, have been mostly chain stuff. 

Oh, the food!  I so miss big city food.  Mpls had so much variety, so many ethnicities, etc.  Denver doesn't really have that, I think b/c it's so "western" oriented that it focuses more on meat.  Down here is ridiculously bad for food.  Only chains really. 

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2017 14:50:30 GMT SA said:

Because if I were a single person or a couple without kids - I would love to live in a mall. It's like it's own little indoor living metropolis. The roof could be a park/garden/dog park/etc.
Try and get life conveniences in there that would be good for tenants and other people in the community for a one stop shop: Post office, pharmacy, grocery store, restaurants, etc.
The only downside is what the article printed out. There are no full kitchens because of code. Not sure what the stipulations are on all of that, etc.

I always said they should make something like independent living communities for younger singles or childless couples. Group dining so you don't have to cook, some organized activities or trips so you don't have to plan yourself, etc. Sounds like this could be kind of like that.

[Deleted]

Jun 13, 2017 23:24:52 GMT @fashionboulevard said:

Jun 11, 2017 14:50:30 GMT SA said:

Because if I were a single person or a couple without kids - I would love to live in a mall. It's like it's own little indoor living metropolis. The roof could be a park/garden/dog park/etc.
Try and get life conveniences in there that would be good for tenants and other people in the community for a one stop shop: Post office, pharmacy, grocery store, restaurants, etc.
The only downside is what the article printed out. There are no full kitchens because of code. Not sure what the stipulations are on all of that, etc.

I always said they should make something like independent living communities for younger singles or childless couples. Group dining so you don't have to cook, some organized activities or trips so you don't have to plan yourself, etc. Sounds like this could be kind of like that.

Fashion - they should! I think that's something that young people and lower income singles would flock to. The micro apt thing is cool, but it also attracts those with wealth that want to live differently for a while or longer...  Then it falls into the supply and demand game again, and possibly puts it out of financial reach for those who need something inexpensive. 

They had (have) similar camps up in North Dakota near The Bakken Formation. They had guys from all over the country / world up there working and literally had no places for them to stay. As quick as they'd put up temporary housing, it would fill. They put together dorm style camps for the guys (and some women). The guys ate together in one room, had rec style showers, laundry facility - everything. But they lived in single dorm rooms. Most of these guys were making over 100k - 150k a year and banking it or sending it home. Their housing was minimal.  This was something that worked well. One of DH's guys went up there, and it was great for temporary housing and work.